Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?

[frbnsn]

First, we have to establish the existence of this god.Then we can discuss 'messengers', will and prophets.

But as I said, the existence of God can’t be proved.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What does that mean?

That my belief in Allah is between Allah and me. You may have your opinion on what i believe, and you are free to have it. I dont stop you

But how my understanding of islam and Allah grow within me, that can only be understood between me and Allah.

But i be happy to share my current understanding

 

[frbnsn]

Intuition from reason? Isn't that an oxymoron?

No absolutely, intuition emerges from reason!

 

[ratiocinator]

We can’t prove God to you, but according to you, this universe has been created by matter?

Not even sure what you mean. Matter is a rather vague term that refers to some subset of the 'stuff' in the universe.

 

[firedragon]

Religion is (in the main) a political power grab and a money making exercise.

One could say the same thing about Atheism.

Both are being ignorant, and half truthful.

 

[frbnsn]

It's interesting. I grew up being told there's no evidence for many of the things in the bible
such as King David and Isaiah; there never was a large population in Israel, Jews are just
people who join a faith and so on. We are being 'filled with knowledge" now. Archaeology
and genetics have give us a deeper understanding.

When people would say, "There's no evidence for King David" they were abusing science,
not invoking it - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Invoking 'hypocrisy' means nothing - most Westerners honor Christianity in the breach, as
they say, but that says nothing about Christianity as we read in the bible.
And you need mosquitoes like you need all animals - they fit together. A bird might think
there's no God because of the cat.

Finally you DO need a God or god. The universe did not create itself when it did not exist.
That would just be magic.

I also believe that things told in scriptures are fables.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Here is the question! What do you think?

Can't believe what isn't there.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

First the big stuff
There is no need for gods
There is no evidence of gods
The gaps in knowledge traditionally filled with god are now being filled with knowledge.

Then the nit-picking stuff
Unnecessary suffering
Childhood leukaemia etc
The mosquito etc
The futility of prayer
Hypocrisy of religion

Result, i don't believe gods (or a god) exists

I would like knowledge and evidence in regards to morality.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, I don't believe in god.

Religion is (in the main) a political power grab and a money making exercise.

I can see no evidence of the existence of god or gods.

I see no evidence of money.

 

[frbnsn]

A power? Not a personage?
Powers like gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces, or electromagnetism? These are the powers that created the universe. They are impersonal and have no will or desires. They're not judgemental. They are not gods.

Right. These are measured forces, not the power of God.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I follow the physics, do you believe god magiced it all from nothing?

I would like the purely physical properties of the "I" you use.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

A power? Not a personage?
Powers like gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces, or electromagnetism? These are the powers that created the universe. They are impersonal and have no will or desires. They're not judgemental. They are not gods.

So how did the impersonal give rise to the personal?
You use a lot of personal words like will, desire, judgemental and not.

I would like you to only do your life in impersonal terms and only use science. So if you answer no personal words!

 

[PruePhillip]

I also believe that things told in scriptures are fables.

What things? Let's be clear about one critical thought:
WHERE WE REASONABLY CAN VALIDATE SOMETHING IN THE
BIBLE, WE OFTEN DO.

For instance, we can't validate the resurrection, but we should be able
to validate there was a town called Nazareth - and indeed we found this
town.
We can't validate the David and Goliath story, but we should be able to
validate there was a King David, or House of David. And sure enough,
we found this.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Here is the question! What do you think?

I will conclude based on your religious identification that you mean the God of Abraham.

I believe that the Abrahamic God exists for the Abrahamics. Why? Because I've seen evidence of His existence in their actions and behaviors.

Do I personally recognize him as a deity? No. I do not operate within the Abrahamic paradigm.

 

[PruePhillip]

I believe in imaginary gods ─ the world and history have hundreds of thousands of examples. From that I'm inclined to think that something in our evolution favors the god idea, whether as an artifact of some other instinct, or, since we're a fine example of gregarious primate species, as part of tribal identity.

As for believing in real gods, no one will tell me what a real god is, such that I can objectively determine whether my keyboard is God (or a god) or not; so I don't know what I'm suppose to believe, or not-believe, in. (Contrast the unicorn ─ I think it's imaginary, but I can check and find my keyboard's not a unicorn, and if we found a real one, we could tell it was a unicorn.)

A major cause of disbelief today is the study of alternate religions.
We in the West understand Christianity, but then we study Hinduism
for instance, and this causes us to doubt our own religion.

It's common for people to say, "Why do you believe in Christianity?
I believe it's because you were raised in a Christian household."
And a new cynical twist, our faith is connect to 'white' and 'male' and
'European' etc.. It's a post-modernist thing.

But there ARE values we can hold to safely. We hold that in all the
world the scientific principle is the only avenue to truth about the
universe.
And we (or at least most thinking people) believe that democratic
liberalism is best practice for lifting people out of poverty and giving
them opportunities to be who they want to be.
So it should be with Christianity.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You only time you 'believe in' something is when you have no experience of it. I don't walk around saying "I believe in the tree in my yard." Neither do you.

I believe in the tree in your yard exists for you. I've seen evidence of it's existence based on based on your actions.

Do I personally recognize the tree in your yard? No. I have not visited Colorado since 1985 and don't think I ever drove past your cottage.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So your ignorance of physics, apophenia and need for a comfortable explanation leads you to embrace a comforting fable?

How did we jump to the conclusion that @frbnsn is ignorant of physics? Did I miss the exam in another thread?

Or do you just believe he's ignorant of physics?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why do you think the only alternative to the universe creating itself when it did not exist is some (magic) god?

Do you know how the universe created itself?

 

[SalixIncendium]

EITHER the universe created itself when it didn't exist (ie no physics, no mathematics,
no space etc..) or it was created by an external agency.

Unless you have evidence of either, this statement is meaningless.

 

[ratiocinator]

Do you know how the universe created itself?

Not even sure the question makes sense. There is at least one hypothesis that posits that it originated in a closed timelike loop - which would sort of qualify, I guess but it's a long way from being the only idea.