Do you believe in Caste-System ?

[Madhuri]

I have to use a Vaishnavite answer for this. May seem biased.

Actually, an animal cannot raise its level of consciousness without the grace of Bhagavan. Can you imagine what kind of sadhana an animal could do?

Really? I've never heard this before. Where is it written?

 

[Madhuri]

how does such an animal raise its level of consciousness?

I understand that we can reason on our actions and learn from the mistakes we make and the things we do...but how do animals 'reason'? and i mostly find animals to be governed by instincts and they dont tend to try an harm anyone...so what exactly do animals need to learn in order to raise their level of consciousness?

Any and all experience develops awareness. The raising of consciousness is simply an increasing of awareness and knowledge. Even the simplest life forms will learn skills and see and experience in their basic life times.

 

[Madhuri]

What about a Koala who lives in a tree and doesnt' go into temples. How does he raise his level of consciousness?

sorry for all my questioning btw... im not trying to be a pain in the bum, just curious.

I think we enjoy answering the questions. I think anyone enjoys discussing their beliefs.

A koala probably wouldn't learn a huge amount but as I said, any and all experience increases awareness and knowledge, even for an animal. The higher we get, the quicker it is to progress too. That's why humans are in such an incredible position. If we choose to, we can attain enlightenment in this very lifetime. We actually have the capacity to in the human body, assuming the brain is functioning properly.

 

[Chakra]

Really? I've never heard this before. Where is it written?

Not sure where this is written. I think Vishnu Purana, but I'll double check.
The Vedas say that everyone of us was an animal before we got to a human life (evolution).

This would mean we were all dinosaurs at one point. In all honesty, what can a dinosaur possibly do that will give it good karma? Doing its dharma (reproducing, protecting etc) is good, but it will take 100000000000 lifetimes before a dinosaur will get a human body.

If we all relied on our dharma to get us into better lives, we would be nowhere near a human life. Even then, it is only Bhagavan that allows us to practice our dharma.

You do not need to go to a temple to get the grace of the Lord. Simply by touching the water spilled by a devotee, by eating the leftover prasada a devotee may have dropped in a trip, by hearing the name of the Lord, etc will count as devotional activities.

Regards

 

[Chakra]

I can't see any difference in those sentences.
God = everything
Everything = God

arn't they one and the same meaning?

They are different.

God= everything means God is everything at once.

Everything= God means every single individual thing is equal to God which equal everything. That would mean a blade of grass is the equivalent of God. But God is the sum of all things and even beyond that.

To put it another way, to say that I am God would mean to say that I am everything, the source of all sources, the beginning and the end, controller, operator, destroyer of all worlds. But in fact I am not. I am only a part of everything.

When you say, Everything is God, that means you are saying that each entity is supreme in its own right. Meaning that there are 10000000 Supreme Gods.

When you say God is everything, that means there is only one entity, God, who is scattered around in his creation.

Actually, even Advaita believes in "God is Everything".


Regards

 

[Riverwolf]

These days it's truly amazing when someone finds their varna. Have you heard the phrases, 'He was born to cook, born to be a teacher, she was born to dance, to be a mother,' etc. When a person finds what they love, this is a reflection of the way varna was intended. You can hear it in the emotion of the language.

We had varna by birth in the west not so long ago when people very often followed in their parents footsteps by learning their trade from their parents. Farmers became farmers, bricklayers became bricklayers. Many castes still there today are no different than guilds.

My Father is a musician. I'm not(yet), but I am still a creative spirit, with a grasp on how to create other things (in theory, anyway. )

My Mother is more practically-minded, and has little creative spirit in her. I inherited very little of that practicality, so for me, money basically has very little worth beyond the "stuff" it can get me. But I did inherit her emotional sensitivity.

'Course this does bring up the nature vs nurture debate. If my parents had died soon after I was born, and I had to be raised by parents who were completely different, would I have been like my new parents, or my biological ones?

 

[Chakra]

My Father is a musician. I'm not(yet), but I am still a creative spirit, with a grasp on how to create other things (in theory, anyway. )

My Mother is more practically-minded, and has little creative spirit in her. I inherited very little of that practicality, so for me, money basically has very little worth beyond the "stuff" it can get me. But I did inherit her emotional sensitivity.

'Course this does bring up the nature vs nurture debate. If my parents had died soon after I was born, and I had to be raised by parents who were completely different, would I have been like my new parents, or my biological ones?

Probably a mix of both. Of course you have some abilities encoded in your genes; some abilities will be nurtured.

 

[George-ananda]

'Course this does bring up the nature vs nurture debate. If my parents had died soon after I was born, and I had to be raised by parents who were completely different, would I have been like my new parents, or my biological ones?

Some of both sets of parents. Heredity AND environment are both heavy influences.

 

[Vinayaka]

'Course this does bring up the nature vs nurture debate.

And possibly excludes seed karmas, the stuff brought over from previous lives. Nature could include it, but it could also be considered a third factor ... certainly for those who believe in it.

 

[Vinayaka]

I realised that 'white collar' and blue collar' are nothing but castes.

 

[Pegg]

I realised that 'white collar' and blue collar' are nothing but castes.

neither of which are ordained by birth.

You really can't compare such things with caste...they are simply not.

 

[Vinayaka]

As has been explained lots on this thread, remaining in a birth caste is pretty much no longer applicable. However difficult it may be to move to a different class or caste is dependent on time and place. It's quite difficult in either society.

It's time to rid ourselves of applying those archaic notions about caste to today's world. It's simply not applicable any more that burning at the stake for excommunication.

 

[Chakra]

@Peggji,
Hinduism says that all are equal before God, whether they be atheists, murderers, rapists, or theists. Then how can it support the modern caste system?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Caste system shouldn't even exist

 

[Chakra]

Not to be offensive, but I read a post recently on a website that said that Christianity and Islam also have a caste system.

The Christian Caste System is where Christians are above non-Christians. This is a worse caste system imho, because the Christians will go to heaven while the non-Christians will go to hell for eternity. Not to mention that if you are born in a tribe in the remote parts of South America, chances are that you won't be accepting Christianity as your religion, meaning you will go to hell. And there are no second chances.

Islam works the same way.

Thoughts/Critiques?

Regards

 

[Poeticus]

neither of which are ordained by birth.

You really can't compare such things with caste...they are simply not.

Empirical and theoretical comparisons of birth-based and monetary-based differences are quite arbitrary and indirectly apologetic since the resulting attitude always seems to condone one over the other. Both are equally bad, regardless of one being "ordained by birth" and the other not. It is hard to convey this intellectually-accepted reality to religious rigorists that are socially morphed under the comforts of classism, however.

 

[Vinayaka]

Empirical and theoretical comparisons of birth-based and monetary-based differences are quite arbitrary and indirectly apologetic since the resulting attitude always seems to condone one over the other. Both are equally bad, regardless of one being "ordained by birth" and the other not. It is hard to convey this intellectually-accepted reality to religious rigorists that are socially morphed under the comforts of classism, however.

Very well put. I'm against __________ based discrimination. Put anything you want to in that blank.

 

[atanu]

Not to be offensive, but I read a post recently on a website that said that Christianity and Islam also have a caste system.

The Christian Caste System is where Christians are above non-Christians. This is a worse caste system imho, because the Christians will go to heaven while the non-Christians will go to hell for eternity. Not to mention that if you are born in a tribe in the remote parts of South America, chances are that you won't be accepting Christianity as your religion, meaning you will go to hell. And there are no second chances.

Islam works the same way.

Thoughts/Critiques?

Regards

Yeah. I did not want to point out this happening in this very thread. It is so very evident. But it is natural.

Sense of separate existence in innate in the ego-selves. In fact, imparting of the knowledge that the guna-karma based categories of Varna are directly from God and that beneath these functional differences, same Ishwara pervades all beings equally, is actually a knowledge that helps to overcome the sense of separateness.

 

[Maya3]

What a fantastic thread!

Pegg,
You have been asking great questions.
One thing I'd like to add, sorry that I found this thread so late, is your comments about birth.

in western cultures, 'class' is about money and occupation, not about birth. And the big difference is that a person born into a poor family can become very wealthy and completely change their status in society.

Class in western society has very much to do with birth.
A child that are born into a wealthy and highly educated family, will have every opportunity, he or she will go to private school, have the best access to health care and healthy food, will be able to afford to study and can thus get a good job.

A child who is born into a poor family in a bad neighborhood will not have access to the same things, not have the same opportunities.

Yes that person can struggle and maybe with the righ circumstances get a good life, but it is a lot harder and much more unusual. Same as in India.

Maya