Do you believe in Caste-System ?

[oldbadger]

It does not look good........

Restorative Justice and India's Caste System: New World Outlook, July - August 1999

The fact that the 3500-year-old caste system should survive in India today almost defies comprehension. It has been an aberration of the Hindu psyche. Indians who use lofty rhetoric about progress, characterizing their society as "united in diversity," seem to be simply perpetuating the system of social gradation that has blighted so many lives.

 

[oldbadger]

....things might get better in the UK for Dalits......

BBC News - Caste discrimination law faces appalling delays, say campaigners

The UK government has been accused of creating "appalling delays" to the outlawing of caste discrimination.

Ministers have announced they do not expect to introduce measures to Parliament until the summer of 2015.

The Anti-Caste Discrimination Alliance said it was "shocked" by the length of the timetable for protecting people known as "untouchables".

But the government said the issue was "sensitive" and "comprehensive consultation" was needed.

The caste system, developed in India, divides people into separate groups based on birth, marriage and occupation.

The House of Lords has voted twice for legal protection to be given to the estimated 400,000 Dalits - widely known as "untouchables" - who are regarded as being beneath the caste system, living in the UK.

 

[Sunstone]

While I think people have differing aptitudes and abilities -- even, to some extent, from birth -- I don't think societies have any morally legitimate business assigning people to castes based on their parents and ancestors. Besides caste lines must ultimately be enforced with violence least they break down.

 

[Vinayaka]

Besides caste lines must ultimately be enforced with violence least they break down.

Class based discrimination enforced with violence has led to many a socialist revolution. Look at all the old feudal royalty guys and gals who clearly weren't suited for leadership.

 

[oldbadger]

Class based discrimination enforced with violence has led to many a socialist revolution.

................................ which ended some class based systems. It may soon be the turn of the caste system to collapse. Let's hope so......

 

[Sunstone]

Class based discrimination enforced with violence has led to many a socialist revolution. Look at all the old feudal royalty guys and gals who clearly weren't suited for leadership.

Indeed, I think if we ever have a socialist revolution in the US, it will be the same old story once again: The incompetence of a fairly exclusive and isolated elite class sparking a revolution.

 

[Vinayaka]

Indeed, I think if we ever have a socialist revolution in the US, it will be the same old story once again: The incompetence of a fairly exclusive and isolated elite class sparking a revolution.

If African Americans had a much higher percentage of the population, it probaly would have happened already. Here in Canada, our 'untouchables' are the First Nations peoples. Governments build human rights museums while First Nations people beg for access to clean drinking water. But since they're a minority, they're largely ignored.

 

[atanu]

Caste...............

Gang rape exposes India′s violent caste system | Asia ...
Gang rape exposes India
Deutsche Welle
Jun 2, 2014 - Gang rape exposes India's violent caste system ... According to the police, on Tuesday May 27, the two cousins, aged 14 and 15, went missing ...

It does not look good........

Restorative Justice and India's Caste System: New World Outlook, July - August 1999

The fact that the 3500-year-old caste system should survive in India today almost defies comprehension. It has been an aberration of the Hindu psyche. Indians who use lofty rhetoric about progress, characterizing their society as "united in diversity," seem to be simply perpetuating the system of social gradation that has blighted so many lives.

What you are highlighting is casteism, which is a sub class of racism, which is a symptom of hatred for the otherness. Casteism is condemned by majority of Hindus, and especially by the progressive artists, scientists, and statesmen.

OTOH, to what 'ism' or to what 'system' you ascribe all violence and hatred that we see in world?
.........

Varna dharma teaches that one's station in life is a result of one's past actions and one's nature. So, a grounding in the knowledge of Varna will prepare one to take responsibility rather than blame others for one's problems. OTOH, all violence in society is due to the tendency of pinning fault on so called others.


There are numerous records, in Upanishads, puranic lores, and itihasa (like Ramayana), wherein caste designations are shown to be determined by one's actions and not merely based on birth.

 

[oldbadger]

What you are highlighting is casteism, which is a sub class of racism, which is a symptom of hatred for the otherness. Casteism is condemned by majority of Hindus, and especially by the progressive artists, scientists, and statesmen.

OTOH, to what 'ism' or to what 'system' you ascribe all violence and hatred that we see in world?
.........

Varna dharma teaches that one's station in life is a result of one's past actions and one's nature. So, a grounding in the knowledge of Varna will prepare one to take responsibility rather than blame others for one's problems. OTOH, all violence in society is due to the tendency of pinning fault on so called others.


There are numerous records, in Upanishads, puranic lores, and itihasa (like Ramayana), wherein caste designations are shown to be determined by one's actions and not merely based on birth.

Atanu..... please tell us of your caste...?
The ladies in the picture below know more about it than me, and they want its evils ended.....

 

[Pegg]

Varna dharma teaches that one's station in life is a result of one's past actions and one's nature. So, a grounding in the knowledge of Varna will prepare one to take responsibility rather than blame others for one's problems. OTOH, all violence in society is due to the tendency of pinning fault on so called others.

Perhaps this thinking is why those in the lower castes are treated so unjustly... it basically says that being born in a low caste means you were a bad person in your previous lives. Perhaps its viewed as a punishment and something deserving?

If so, I can see why the attitude toward the lower caste people is so poor.

 

[oldbadger]

Perhaps this thinking is why those in the lower castes are treated so unjustly... it basically says that being born in a low caste means you were a bad person in your previous lives. Perhaps its viewed as a punishment and something deserving?

If so, I can see why the attitude toward the lower caste people is so poor.

I wonder what caste is held by its supporters here on RF?
I want to hear from Dalit supporters....

 

[Pegg]

I wonder what caste is held by its supporters here on RF?
I want to hear from Dalit supporters....

I think Chinu may be :yes:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, I'm a communist, so I'm a radical egalitarian. Plus, it's against Christian ethics.

 

[Atman]

Maybe I'm incorrect in my judgement here, but I think Atanu's stance has been mischaracterized here. As he had noted in an earlier post

There are numerous records, in Upanishads, puranic lores, and itihasa (like Ramayana), wherein caste designations are shown to be determined by one's actions and not merely based on birth.

This is the progressive view in Hinduism, in which all varnas are seen as equal in merit, and as determined not by birth (jati in Sanskrit) alone but also by disposition (guna in sanskrit.) So according to this view one could be reborn into the family of a Shudra (labourer) according to his disposition in his last life. However as the individual grows and changes his disposition becomes more like that of say a Brahmin (priest/teacher) and he should accordingly preform this occupation as opposed to that of a Shudra.

This is eloquently explained by a story from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. To summarize it briefly a student by the name of Satyakama goes to seek teaching in the Vedas from an established Guru. Satyakama goes to the sage Gautama and when asked of his parentage explains that his mother is a prostitute and he does not know who his father is. Gautama declares that because of his truthfulness Satyakama is indeed a Brahmin, and initiates him into the study of the Vedas accordingly.

 

[Poeticus]

I wonder what caste is held by its supporters here on RF?
I want to hear from Dalit supporters....

I'm actually of a low-caste background, believe it or not. Historically, I'd be of the varna known as Shudra (though one must not confuse varna with jati, as RF admin Madhuri descriptively put it earlier). The only reason I don't talk about it is because the last time I did on a forum having to do with religion, numerous proselytizers started "preaching the Word" to me. I felt it to be quite arrogant and impolite, as if I were a poached animal limping after a deadly encounter with hunters who paraded after me as if I was in "need of saving".

 

[George-ananda]

Varna-asrama dharma is core of Hindu dharma,

Thank you for jumping into this discussion Atanu

You asked for questions:

1. Are we saying that people of the lower (working) varnas are less advanced spiritually (thamasic guna predominates) than those of the Brahmin varna (stavic guna predominates)? And that the reincarnation process incarnates them in the varna that is best for them?

 

[atanu]

Perhaps this thinking is why those in the lower castes are treated so unjustly... it basically says that being born in a low caste means you were a bad person in your previous lives. Perhaps its viewed as a punishment and something deserving?

If so, I can see why the attitude toward the lower caste people is so poor.

Helllo Pegg

I do not deny that there have been cases of unjust treatment. But such is due to racism ... hatred of the other and not due to Varna Ashrama dharma.

See, God comes and tells, "I am as much in a lowly person as I am in high and mighty". God is said to be samam (equally situated).

But hatred of mind makes many forget this and impels many to speak and act from perspective of "i am this superior person". Such persons forget about their own goodness and begin to see evil in others only.

And then what happens of such people?

Shri Krishna tells in Gita "I hurl the hard hearted cruel people deeper and deeper into darkness".

But, unlike teaching of Christianity of 'eternal hell' and 'eternal damnation', the Varna Ashrama dharma teaches of one's own control over Guna (mental quality) and Karma (works) that together determine the Varna, the veil that hides the Godliness of all beings. Varna Ashrama dharma is a prescription "Know thyself and first mind your own business".

Good, pure, sattwik mental attitude coupled with good karma helps one to remove veils that hide the Godliness existing in the core of the heart of every being.

 

[atanu]

I think Chinu may be :yes:

Ha ha. What prejudice.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, I'm a communist, so I'm a radical egalitarian. Plus, it's against Christian ethics.

Caste system among Indian Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It exists there in Christianity as well. It's also against Hindu ethics. For people who are aware of caste, and for those asking here, I'm a Dalit. All converts are Dalits. For those born Hindus who do not practice casteism, I'm treated like a Brahmin by them.

Most of my friends are this .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vellalar

 

[Vinayaka]

I wonder what caste is held by its supporters here on RF?

According to this... BBC News - The Great British class calculator: What class are you? I wonder what class you are. I did the survey and got working class.