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Featured Do you believe in a creator of the universe/universes?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Meandflower, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. Joe W

    Joe W Always a godfather, never a god.

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  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How can gravity make material that is not uniformly distributed order?

    We were talking about nature.

    How does time going backwards work?

    What order is involved with condensed material expanding into everything we have?

    God in the Old Testament didn't have wives. Polytheistic gods weren't described as first and foremost holy and righteous but also longsuffering. They didn't die for the sins of their creation. How is Asherah holy and loving?

    How is the God of the Bible not exactly moral?
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe the other explanation for the expansion of the universe makes more sense?
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Gravity "sucks".

    Who claimed time goes backwards?

    This is a poorly asked question. I do not know what you mean.

    I didn't claim that he did. Why even make that statement. And yes, some polytheistic gods were described as first and foremost. By the way, that God of the Bible is not described as holy and righteous. He is described as evil and vane. They claim that he is holy and righteous but cannot support that claim.

    Let's see, genocide, slavery, unjust punishment. The list goes on. You should be asking how is the God of the Bible moral.
     
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  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    One should accept the explanations supported by objective evidence.
     
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  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How does gravity explain creation, order, art, and design, that you see in nature?

    Infinite regress insinuates that if not time, the condensed material that expands into everything we have, goes backwards.

    I was asking how you think condensed material expanding into everything we have, works.

    Psalms describes God as righteous and Isaiah as holy. The Bible never says that God created evil. That's based on a misinterpretation of Isaiah 45:7.

    Genocide is based off of ethnicity and slavery in the US was based off of race. The Old Testament didn't have genocide and what seemed like slavery was indentured servitude.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    "Creation"? That is a loaded term. Try asking a proper question.

    And no, there is no insinuation. We can calculate back to the Big Bang. Or actually a tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang. That does not mean that time goes backward.

    And once again, the expansion of the Big Bang did not evenly distribute mass. As a result stars formed. In areas of higher density mass attracted itself to other mass. In other words gravity sucks. Stars were formed. Do you understand this?

    Does it? I am betting that it only claims that God is righteous. Claims are worthless. The Bible regularly describes God as evil.

    Wow ! A Christian that never read the Bible. Don't you remember that Moses was told to commit genocide more than once? I can provide the verses. And no, there is no difference between OT slavery and slavery in the Old South. You are conflating how fellow Jews were to be treated, they were supposed to be under indentured servitude and how foreigners were treated. They were life long slaves that could be passed on to one's children. And not only that it also tells people how to trick their fellow Hebrews into being slaves for the rest of their lives. Plus daughters could be sold into sex slavery. Hebrew or not. That was life long too so I guess that it was worse than Old South slavery.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I don't believe in science. God created science.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about the nature and art like design that you see when you look around you.

    The Bible never says that God created evil. People take that verse out of context. Urban Legends of the Old Testament: God Created Evil — Moral Apologetics

    The Bible never condones sex slavery. There's evidence the Midianite girls were to be taken as wives, and that God didn't order them to be spared, it was something that Moses decided to do. What about God’s cruelty against the Midianites

     
  10. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The status using words, was scientific and a self contradiction.

    Science says what the universal creation became meant that what was or use to be higher form is gone, completely removed.

    Then today are searching for the status origins.

    Eternal, is a descriptive unconditional status. Where the spirit who unconditionally loves us, the Creator self, separate from God. God having been the bodies O that went to Hell.

    Reason.

    Space, the part of the eternal surrounding the spirit entities. Androgynous.

    Who had sung up in a research O God sounds. The surrounding mass thinned, change to the language was enacted....the too late I never should have thought to re search an idea. Who was the other spirit. Being the language.

    Spiritually it was explained to me, that the spirit language in the eternal was different in self presence to the androgynous family. And they wondered at its presence by term, how to explain reason for change to their body. And how God O fell out of it. Why space became space and how the creation energy, the burnt eternal mass is just a loss....but never ends completely.

    Space when God o O bodies burst became the surrounding eternal burning, yet being higher than held sounds o O God was part of the reason that saved God from complete destruction. The removal of complete body lost from the eternal, allowing the eternal to own a hole, being space is because of that original burn.

    In burning the energy mass does become less and a portion of change removes the presence mass of the energy as a body, but then a residue is left. Due to it never being enabled to become space....but when it drops down to the floor of space it then finally releases more space to be enacted as increase.

    Science then quotes energy cannot completely be totally 100 per cent used up.

    If science, just a human who can think, owning natural awareness the same as everyone else, did not believe that the eternal still existed, they would not express the same story again and again and again......in full awareness as a spiritual human is, the eternal the portion not converted into creation still exists.

    It is where and how we came into being from that higher place of unconditional love/spirit that was never God.

    No man is God is stated as a summation of a spiritual human being who proved that we came from a place of spirit. That he endured what his human science Father caused to his baby life, again and again and again. Copying in a small way what his thesis is about the cosmology, as that proof of what he believes.

    Self combustion was in fact introduced into natural life by the scientist why we named him the Satanist.

    Jesus a termed teaching reference of a male/man about a male/man incorrect choices against his own person, quotes NO MAN IS GOD and it is true.

    Believe in spirit eternal or not, you prove by how you behave and what you believe that you are as a scientist no different to anyone else. Yet as a self your personal wants and what organization you belong to is how you express if you are correct or incorrect.
     
  11. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    Here is a summary of the current ideas: Chronology of the universe - The very early universe

    What's this got to do with anything I said?

    And...?

    Evidence? How do we find out what it is? Where is the objective test?

    What's wrong with "foul" language?

    And you think that makes it moral do you? I don't. See, where is your absolute morality?
     
  12. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    As I keep on explaining, the singularity is what happens to the equations and that indicates that they probably aren't applicable at that point and we need a theory that unites quantum field theory with general relativity. We don't have such a theory, only hypotheses, such as string theory and loop quantum gravity, both of which do not predict a singularity.
     
  13. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    Simply false.
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    A lot of laws involve onerous obligations that people don't like. Most child support money, the amount that people don't like to pay, probably is multiple times more than they would spend on their kid if they lived with them, but people have to pay that amount of money to show respect for their family.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How does quantum field theory and general relativity explain what really existed at the start of the universe?
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How is it not indisputable when it comes to everything in the universe?
     
  17. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    And you think this justifies owning people as property, do you?

    Please try to pay attention. No - we need something that combines them. We have hypotheses, but no tested theory.

    It's simply wrong according to modern science - specifically quantum mechanics. There is literally no reason why a particular radioactive nucleus decays rather than another because it's a quantum tunnelling effect. There is a hypothesis that the start of the universe (or multiverse) may have been a quantum tunnelling event too.
     
  18. Mahmoud Ali

    Mahmoud Ali New Member

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    Lessons from the Guidance of The Holy Quran, From the Series of Knowing Allah –– Belssings of Allah – 2nd Lesson

    Lectured By Mr. Hussein BadrEldein Al-houthi

    On 19th JAN 2002, Sa’ada – Yemen

    In the name of Allah the Most Merciful.

    Praises to Allah Almighty, and peace and blessings of Allah be upon our master Muhammad and his good and pure family.

    The topic is still about the noble verse: {And that who entrusts ALLAH (God) and His Messenger, and those who have believed, then those (The party of Allah) are the victorious.”(Al-Ma`idah: 56)

    And we said: It is very important to know who the soldiers (Entrusted) of Allah are, and to know how to be a soldier. The certain thing to know, is that the knowing of Allah a sufficient knowledge, A wide knowledge, is necessary in order for a person to be among the Soldiers of Allah. Because one of the most prominent characteristics of the soldiers of Allah Almighty is that they have great Trust in Allah, and their trust in Allah is very strong.


    Such a Strong trust in Allah is only achieved through knowing Allah a very well knowledge, and we do not mean by his knowledge (glory be to Him the Almighty) what is reconciled to him in the books of theology, but the extensive knowledge of the Almighty through the Noble Qur’an, a knowledge of his perfection, a knowledge of the blessings bestowed upon his servants, a knowledge of the manifestations of his power and evidence of his wisdom, and the manifestations of his mercy. Also knowing the severity of his punishment, knowing what he prepared for his soldiers (Entrusted), and what he prepared for his enemies, knowing the special care which his guardians (Soldiers) will receive from him, and knowing that he is the predominant, this is the extensive knowledge.


    Yesterday the topic was about the divinity of Almighty Allah, is to know his divinity, glory be to Him, what does it mean for us, And that is to know that there is no god but Allah, and as the Almighty said to His Messenger Muhammad (may Allah blessings be upon him and his family): {So know that there is no god but Allah, and you shall ask for forgiveness of your mistake and of the believers} (Muhammad: from verse 19) and whenever we have (by Allah's permission, success and enlightenment) a sufficient knowledge of the meaning of “there is no god but Allah”, sufficient knowledge of the meaning of his divinity, that he is our god and we are his servants, then this is considered as one of the most important benefits and the greatest gains that if a person spends his life Long to establish its meanings in himself then it would be of the greatest blessings he gets throughout his life.


    Allah Almighty is our God and we are His servants, and this means that He alone has the right to have the command in us, and the judgment in us, He who has the right to legislate for us, direct us and guide us, He is the only one who has the right to rule over us, He who has the right to manage our affairs ; Because we are his servants, he is the one who has the right not for someone else to interfere in our affairs in a way that contradicts with what he - glory be to Him - wants for us and from us. He is the only one who has the right for us to obey, and we obey whoever obeyed Him from His obedience.


    This important rule and wide rule is that which separates you from every god on earth, whether represented in your desires, or represented in a person, or represented in anything of this world. So when you separate yourself from everything to become your God except Allah, then you achieve the meaning of (There is no god but Allah), and then you will be granted from the sources his pride, from the strength of his unity, from the wisdom of his unity, from the knowledge of his unity, as Allah Almighty said in Yusef (Joseph) the profit of Allah and in the Prophet of Allah, Moses: {And when he has reached his strength, we gave to him wisdom and knowledge. And that is how I reward The good-doers} (Yusef: 22)
     
  19. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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    I believe there is infinite intelligence reflected in universe but I'm not sure if universe is creation or emanation or...
     
  20. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Yet the male self, scientist thinker, bio consciousness is making all of those claims as consciousness, giving descriptive analogies to all bodies that have existed in that spatially owned supported presence, a very long time before you personally began thinking about it.

    Have you not yet concluded that you are self possessed as a male, a human, a scientist, a theist with inferences said by your own person as if you owned an intent of being the actual Creator of all bodies, including owning all those powers inside of your own bio life?

    For that is how I perceive how you express your mentality, just as a bio human, who ignores that sperm and an ovary by 2 human being parents created you, and you personally are only as old as what you are today.

    Yet say you are 30 and claim the Universe existed for billions of years......how could you possibly believe you own any status on Earth that quotes control of a "beginning". When science, a machine is only taken from the mass of stone. It is not taken from energy in its beginnings/origins.

    Energy its own self he says exists. I own a formula that quotes how to abstract it.

    I never owned any formula that quoted how energy was created, for science imposes that everything or anything began somewhere. What you claim you seek how to invent energy...then you alter the subject and claim you can channel it,

    So if a human did a study on their human science brother beginnings and wrote a list of anything and everything he has ever claimed, surely you would be embarrassed.
     
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