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Featured Do you believe God’s word or man’s?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ted Evans, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Yes. I have a pretty good mind, and I'm not afraid to use it. And if God exists, I doubt that God will be offended by my using it, either.
     
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  2. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Do you believe this verse to mean what it says or do you take it as a metaphor and if so, what does it mean?

    All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;” (2 Timothy 3:16, NASB95)

    Does that say "all Scripture"? How can we use all scripture if it is not accurate?

    What about this verse, does it not include Genesis 1?

    For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4, NASB95)

    To answer your question, perhaps there is no problem relative to salvation but what does it convey to non-believers if Christians say the Genesis' account of creation is wrong but you must believe other parts of the Bible as being accurate? I would just smile at them....come to think of it, I did, before I came to believe the Bible is exactly what it claims to be.
     
  3. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    If God was so blatantly by the letter, and a day can only mean 1 day our time, none of us would be here because Adam and Eve would have died before having children.

    God said to Adam "In the day you eat of it you will surely die".

    So Go away deceitful worker. Your only purpose is to make scripture look impossible to be true.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If the 6 creative days are just 24-hrs each, then is the ' day ' mentioned at Genesis 2:4 also a 24-hr. day.
    I find Noah's day to be more than a 24-hr. day, or was your grandfather's day only a 24-hr.day.
    If God's 7th day was also a 24-hr. day, then I wonder how His day was still on going according to Hebrews 4:4-11.
     
  5. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    They died spiritually. Physical death came later.
     
  6. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    That's because you don't understand what Hebrews 4 is talking about.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, within a ' thousand-year day ' they would die. That is why Adam died before age 1,000 at Genesis 5:5.
    Even the oldest person recorded at Genesis 5:27 died before age 1,000.

    Jesus' coming 'millennium-long day' of governing over Earth is a thousand-year day.
    Since God is Not limited by time as we are, a thousand years is as a day in His eyes as per Psalms 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    JOHN 14:6 KJV "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - King James Bible
     
  9. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Nah, they died within a 1,000 year day.

    2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
     
  10. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1, NASB95)

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1, NASB95)

    So, "in the beginning" whose word was it? It certainly seems to me since the Word was God and the word reads "God created" then those words are God's word's not man's. Only that God designated someone to record His word and to write them down for all of mankind.

    Just one of the passages where God instructed Moses to write something down.

    Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”” (Exodus 34:27, NASB95)
     
  11. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    That verse does not mean 1000 years = 1 day. It means that time is nothing to God, he controls it, it does not limit Him.
     
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  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    No, the modern science that does not teach the universe came from "nothing". I don't believe there is a modern scientist that teaches this? Do you know of one? Can you cite them?

    I'm talking about the modern science that shows the universe is 14.5 billion years old, and does not engage in posturing speculations of what came before the big bang as science. That's the job of theologians and philosophers.

    Nope. Because that's not what science investigates. It only deals with what it can observe and measure.

    There is none. That of course does not mean YOUR interpretation of Genesis is the answer to this grand mystery. BTW, I do believe God is the source of all that is. I just don't buy your reading of Genesis as science. Honestly, you shouldn't either.
     
  13. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    No. You think after thousands of years of waiting Jesus is going to rule for a day? King for a day? I just totally doubt that. You're talking to the wrong guy everytime you say it because it just annoys the hell out of me.
     
  14. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    No, that's really stupid. Why would he use a finite space of time such as one thousand years to show time does not limit him?? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical. Just think about it.
     
  15. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Paul seemed to think the OT writings were important, don’t you think? What writings did Jesus and the apostles use in their teachings? How many times did they quote the OT writings verbatim?


    For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4, NASB95)
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    and your reason for saying the ^ above ^ is ____________________________

    I read there is danger of not entering into God's on-going rest day according to Hebrews 4:1-10
    I read there is exhortation to enter into God's rest according to Hebrew 4:11-13
    I read when the ancient Israelites left Egypt that failed to enter into God's rest day.
    They lacked faith and failed because of disobedience and drew away from God as per Hebrews 3:12.
     
  17. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Where did you get that meaning from? It does not seem to be from scripture.

    93.387 Χριστόςb, οῦ m: (the Greek translation of the Hebrew and Aramaic word ‘Messiah’) a proper name for Jesus—‘Christ’ (Mt 27:17)
     
  18. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    No, God did not claim this. The author(s) of Genesis wove this into their story about how they saw the role of God and the existence of the natural world came to be, in their imagination. It's a wonderful story! Full of truths and meaning! But not full of scientific facts about how the world actually came to be formed. It's metaphor.

    Lot's of Christians, including some of the early church fathers from the 2nd century! Aside from that, read some comparative origin myths of other religions, and read the scholars that look at these. If you insist in mashing the words into a literal interpretation you have to do unpalatable mental gymnastics to make it fit. If God wrote this himself, he didn't have a great deal of insight into the future where critical analysis would see obvious flaws and inconsistencies.

    What does "believe in the scriptures" actually mean to you? You mean believing they were dictated by God and are a substitute for modern scholarship and science? Well, I do not believe that modern doctrine of biblical infallibility. I do not believe the Chicago Statement on Biblical inerrancy, whatsoever. Nor do I, or any other Christian need to in order to say they find truth and value in scripture.

    The whole thing. The whole chapter is.

    Here's the thing you don't seem to get about metaphor and mythology. They are meant to point to truth beyond the words. They are not to tell you the truth. They are to inspire you to find what truth lies in their for you, at any given point in you life. If you reduce these to 'flat facts', well then let's be truthful here. That will become rather humdrum, boring whatevers. That's not what spirituality is about. It's about finding evolving meaning, unfolding in your path to find spiritual truth at the center of God in your life. If you exclude that internal journey and instead look to be told what that Truth is, as if it were the same as facts, then you will find nothing but just data to accept as truths, like the grocery store is open until 9 PM.

    Define what you mean by inspired? Do mean dicated? Then flatly, no. I do not. By inspired by what is in the soul of man reaching out to that Holy Spirit that is in all Life and existence, then yes! I do. That however does NOT make the thoughts and inspirations expressed to be "infallible and inerrant in every way". Not at all. Meaningful, yes. Containing Truth? Yes.

    I also believe that "God's word" is heard, and read, and seen, and experienced in everything created. Don't you? You should. That's in the bible.
     
  19. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I don't understand the question. I'm not implying that. I thought you were? You say Genesis (your reading of it), informs you science has it wrong. So that to me says you think that its account is the correct explanation, and science is wrong until it confirms your beliefs for you, at which point you'll happily say you were right along and your faith is justified. Is that a wrong statement?

    Neither.
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Its from John not god. You are depending on johns words to talk about god instead of going to god directly
     
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