Do you believe because your parents did? If so, WHY?

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's great, but your insults don't offend me. I am free of faith for a reason, because superstition holds back the mind.

So does frenetic xenophobia.

 

[Quintessence]

Well for fpr starters, there are Millions of Muslim children being brainwashed to hate Jews, most of the times this has nothing to do with religion, although it does manifest from religious ideology because the Quran (5:51) does say: "O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people"

This is one exmample of how religion creeps through to become part of secular education/practice. Cricumcision in the Middle East is another example.

Well, like many others, I find "brainwashing" to be completely the wrong word to describe what's going on here. Riverwolf put it best: "Children can't be "brainwashed", because there's nothing in their brains to be washed." This also really isn't proof of what I was asking, it's an anecdote. Show me the majority (as in more than half, globally) of early childhood education programs (aka, preschool and earlier... you know... before the age of five?) that puts religious education on a pinnacle. I'm looking for statistics, not anecdotes. Again, given kids that young can't even comprehend this stuff, I hardly believe the majority of the world's population formalizes this kind of thing. As mentioned, the focus of early childhood education are very basic things like alphabets, reading, and motor coordination - not philosophy and religion.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And there you go again with the name calling. I am simply telling you what is being taught to children and where the source of the brainwashing is.

By all imams. To all children? In all countries?

You're the one here teaching hatred and fear.

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

So does frenetic xenophobia.

I agree! So go tell it to those who are Xenophobic!
Thank you but most of my family is Muslim, including my parents, so very nice of you to call me Islamophobic when I am telling you the facts and actual events!

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

Well, like many others, I find "brainwashing" to be completely the wrong word to describe what's going on here. Riverwolf put it best: "Children can't be "brainwashed", because there's nothing in their brains to be washed." This also really isn't proof of what I was asking, it's an anecdote. Show me the majority (as in more than half, globally) of early childhood education programs (aka, preschool and earlier... you know... before the age of five?) that puts religious education on a pinnacle. I'm looking for statistics, not anecdotes. Again, given kids that young can't even comprehend this stuff, I hardly believe the majority of the world's population formalizes this kind of thing. As mentioned, the focus of early childhood education are very basic things like alphabets, reading, and motor coordination - not philosophy and religion.

True but that depends on what part of the world

 

[Riverwolf]

First of all thank you!
Secondly, you are American, so can you acknowledge, at least, that the threat of terrorism in the U.S is the result of extensive brainwashing?

No... it's the result of several different factors.

 

[Jainarayan]

I did believe what my family believes, but no longer. My family is nominally Roman Catholic (Italian-Americans). They are Catholic-When-Necessary. My mother was a church-goer, my father was not. My brothers and I went to church, my sisters did not. My brothers, sisters, their spouses, children and grandchildren are still Catholic-When-Necessary. The closest I can say I come to their beliefs is my incorporating Jesuism into my beliefs. That is, I don't find an incompatibility with the words of Jesus himself with Hinduism, but only the words of Jesus.

 

[Quintessence]

True but that depends on what part of the world

I suspect so, but I'd still like to see evidence that the majority somehow teach neurologically undeveloped humans complex subjects like religion and philosophy. They must have some sort of magic weed in other countries if they can pull that off. Most toddlers won't even sit still for five seconds, much less comprehend anything philosophical or religious. >_>

If you were speaking of kids over the age of four or five, I might be a bit more forgiving. Maybe when you said "early childhood education" you didn't actually mean the technical definition of "before primary schooling begins at roughly age four or five."

 

[ChristineES]

Well would you still say that after reading the following verse in the Quran:
[FONT=&quot]Surah At-Tawbah (9:29)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled[/FONT]

I have read the Qur'an. Do you really think that this causes terrorism or proves brainwashing? I don't agree if you do.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well would you still say that after reading the following verse in the Quran:
[FONT=&quot]Surah At-Tawbah (9:29)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled[/FONT]

How much of the Qur'an were you taught?

109:6. To you be your Way,
And to me mine.

 

[Riverwolf]

And there you go again with the name calling. I am simply telling you what is being taught to children and where the source of the brainwashing is.

Do you even know what "brainwashing" is? What, exactly, are childrens' brains being washed of?

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

I have read the Qur'an. Do you really think that this causes terrorism or proves brainwashing? I don't agree if you do.

Yes as a matter of fact I do, it was mentioned by the people who beheaded Jack Hensley, and it is brought up all throughout maddrasas to justify killing non-Muslims.. I worked in Saudi Arabia and I know for a fact that this verse plays a role in creating hatred against non-believers!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thank you but most of my family is Muslim, including my parents, so very nice of you to call me Islamophobic when I am telling you the facts and actual events!

... selectively.

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

Do you even know what "brainwashing" is? What, exactly, are childrens' brains being washed of?

Yes I said very clearly, that when a 2nd grade child is being told to yell death to Israel, he is being brainwashed to hate a Nation that he has had no interaction with. I think I was very clear in making this statement. I was one of those kids and I was clearly brainwashed to hate Israel, until my parents moved to Canada where I met many Jewish people as well Israelis, including two of my closest friends. So once again I will ask you kindly to not insult me just because my views on religion do not align with yours.

Thank you

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes as a matter of fact I do, it was mentioned by the people who beheaded Jack Hensley, and it is brought up all throughout maddrasas to justify killing non-Muslims.. I worked in Saudi Arabia and I know for a fact that this verse plays a role in creating hatred against non-believers!

Nobody's doubting that... but why is anyone trying to create hate against non-believers in the first place? After all, North Korea does the same thing, having parents sing lullabies to their children about the downfall of America.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes I said very clearly, that when a 2nd grade child is being told to yell death to Israel, he is being brainwashed to hate a Nation that he has had no interaction with. I think I was very clear in making this statement. I was one of those kids and I was clearly brainwashed to hate Israel, until my parents moved to Canada where I met many Jewish people as well Israelis, including two of my closest friends. So once again I will ask you kindly to not insult me just because my views on religion do not align with yours.

Thank you

Did you know what Israel was before being told this? If not, then it wasn't brainwashing, because your brain wasn't being washed of any prior opinion.

I have made no statements about you personally, and so am unaware as to where you took insult: I'm simply trying to correct you on your terminology. It's not meant to be a statement about your intelligence, the level of which I cannot know from this little interaction. Since you are indirectly saying that you grew up in an Islamic state, I can assume that English is not your first language (though if that is the case, I am VERY impressed), and so you are simply misusing a term because native English speakers also do so frequently.

 

[ChristineES]

Yes as a matter of fact I do, it was mentioned by the people who beheaded Jack Hensley, and it is brought up all throughout maddrasas to justify killing non-Muslims.. I worked in Saudi Arabia and I know for a fact that this verse plays a role in creating hatred against non-believers!

Quoting it doesn't make it the cause of the murder. Using a verse as an excuse to kill or torture someone or to harm someone is done all the time- but you don't blame the verse- you blame the people who do it and the hatred in their hearts. You can't blame it on the religion they were raised with- you blame it on the hatred in their hearts when they do this sort of thing. People need an "excuse" sometimes for their hatred but there is really no excuse- so they use a verse or whatever to "justify" their act- but if one isn't available, they just blame something else. In reality, they have no excuse for doing such horrible things.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So once again I will ask you kindly to not insult me just because my views on religion do not align with yours.

You peddle views on religion based on characterizing religion by the actions of its most extreme and sociopathic elements. It's classic bigotry.

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

Did you know what Israel was before being told this? If not, then it wasn't brainwashing, because your brain wasn't being washed of any prior opinion.

I have made no statements about you personally, and so am unaware as to where you took insult: I'm simply trying to correct you on your terminology. It's not meant to be a statement about your intelligence, the level of which I cannot know from this little interaction. Since you are indirectly saying that you grew up in an Islamic state, I can assume that English is not your first language (though if that is the case, I am VERY impressed), and so you are simply misusing a term because native English speakers also do so frequently.

You're right English is not my first language; in fact with the exception of a few words I did not speak any English until I was in the 6th grade. With respect to the word being misused, I stand corrected, since I did misuse it in this threat at one point when responding very quickly. However, not entirely. Since I did know about a country called Israel prior to being told to yell chants against them… So would you not agree that since my early perspective towards the nation was not negative, but it did change through regular chants and public mantras in elementary school later on in life (ie. Elementary school) that I was being brainwashed to think that they are an evil nation?

 

[Riverwolf]

You're right English is not my first language; in fact with the exception of a few words I did not speak any English until I was in the 6th grade. With respect to the word being misused, I stand corrected, since I did misuse it in this threat at one point when responding very quickly. However, not entirely. Since I did know about a country called Israel prior to being told to yell chants against them… So would you not agree that since my early perspective towards the nation was not negative, but it did change through regular chants and public mantras in elementary school later on in life (ie. Elementary school) that I was being brainwashed to think that they are an evil nation?

In that case, yes.

Though, for the record, regardless of how we refer to this action, we can definitely all agree that it's a real problem that needs changing.

But for that to happen, we need to get to the root of the problem, which is deeper than religion.