Do you believe after death life?

[Trailblazer]

and what will you be doing there

Hell if I know since God has kept the scenery, the accommodations, and the itinerary we will have in heaven a secret...
Pretty much all we are told is in the first paragraph below:

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.

As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

 

[Trailblazer]

and what will you be doing there

Hell if I know since God has kept the scenery, the accommodations, and the itinerary we will have in heaven a secret... All we are allowed to know is in the first paragraph below:

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.

As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

 

[cataway]

interesting , man is made of the earth for the earth. to populate by procreation then die and go off to a better place which strangely enough no one want to go to . yep there's a song in that concept by Kenny Chesney

so, what would happen if you never died at all ?? never went off to heaven ,just kept on living ,even for ever ?

 

[Trailblazer]

interesting , man is made of the earth for the earth. to populate by procreation then die and go off to a better place which strangely enough no one want to go to .

Who says no one wants to go to heaven? Most people who know anything about heaven want to go, when it is their time to go.

so, what would happen if you never died at all ?? never went off to heaven ,just kept on living ,even for ever ?

The world would quickly become overpopulated and no more people could be born.
Who would ever want to live forever on this earth?

 

[cataway]

Who says no one wants to go to heaven? Most people who know anything about heaven want to go, when it is their time to go.

The world would quickly become overpopulated and no more people could be born.
Who would ever want to live forever on this earth?

who is saying it ?? i am saying it . you no more want to go off to heaven then a dog wants to get squashed by a car. the only way to get to heaven is to be invited . the king knows who he invited and they know what it is they will be doing there .

 

[Trailblazer]

who is saying it ?? i am saying it . you no more want to go off to heaven then a dog wants to get squashed by a car. the only way to get to heaven is to be invited . the king knows who he invited and they know what it is they will be doing there .

We do not need to be invited to heaven, we just need to make the choices which will make us worthy of entering heaven.
According to my beliefs, heaven is a geographical location, but a Baha’i once asked the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith (Shoghi Effendi) how to get to heaven, and here was his answer...

"To 'get to heaven' as you say is dependent on two things--faith in the Manifestation of God in His Day, in other words in this age in Bahá'u'lláh; and good deeds, in other words living to the best of our ability a noble life and doing unto others as we would be done by. But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File

To get the guarantee, you need both faith in Baha’u’llah and good deeds, but I do not think that means that only Baha’is will be in heaven... That would not be justice and it would not make sense, since there was a time before Baha’u’llah came when people who were near to God died, so I think they will be in heaven.

Also, Baha’u’llah wrote that followers of the one true God will experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, and that death offers every confident believer the gift of everlasting life, bestowing joy and gladness. That sounds like heaven to me and it sounds a lot better than living forever on earth.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, I said that we can only imagine what the afterlife will be like, I never said we cannot know it exists.

Ok. Show how it exists. You don't know it, if you can't show it.

No, it has more evidence going of it than that

Such as?

, notwithstanding the fact that you would not consider it evidence.

The fact that you say that, tells me that you understand why also, so you must realize how your evidence isn't actually evidence at all.

But go ahead, try me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is a very simple answer to your question, it is because you have a soul and the soul is responsible for consciousness.

If the SOUL is repsonsible for consciousness, then how come that mere chemicals are able to completely shut down consciousness?

The soul works through the brain while we are alive in a physical body,

Evidence of this claim?

but after we die we get a spiritual body and the soul works through that body.

What is a "spiritual body"?
Don't forget your evidence.

No, spiritual does not mean non-conscious and in fact after we die and divest ourselves of our physical body our consciousness will be heightened because the body/brain will no longer be an impediment to the soul. We will be like a bird let out of the cage; the cage is our physical body.

The soul is like the light of the lamp. An external object may interfere with its brightness, but the light itself continues to shine. Or think about the soul as the sun above the clouds. The clouds are simply preventing us from seeing the sunshine, but the sun is shining just as brightly nevertheless.

Every illness afflicting the body of man is an impediment that prevents the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When the soul leaves the body, however, it will be unaffected by any bodily ailments and it will be able to fully manifest its power.

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 153-154

The entire passage is on this link:

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, LXXX

Many claims. Zero evidence
All these claims are indistinguishable from imagination.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok. Show how it exists. You don't know it, if you can't show it.

I can know an afterlife exists without being able to show it exists just as I can know that other galaxies exist without being able to show they exist. I got the information that they exist from science just as I got the information that an afterlife exists from my religion.

The fact that you say that, tells me that you understand why also, so you must realize how your evidence isn't actually evidence at all.

It is evidence by the definition or the word evidence.

Evidence: anything that helps to prove that something is or is not true: EVIDENCE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

There is no such thing as universal evidence because what is evidence to one person is not evidence to another person. It might be evidence to another person if they both consider it evidence, or it might not be, if they don't both consider it evidence.

Something is evidence to me because it indicates to me that my beliefs are true.
Something will not be evidence to you unless it indicates to you that the beliefs are true.

But go ahead, try me.

Why would I? You will just say "that's not evidence."

 

[Trailblazer]

If the SOUL is repsonsible for consciousness, then how come that mere chemicals are able to completely shut down consciousness?

They can shut down consciousness temporarily but not forever, because conscious continues to exist apart from the body and brain since the soul is responsible for consciousness and the soul cannot die.

Evidence of this claim?

What is a "spiritual body"?
Don't forget your evidence.

Many claims. Zero evidence
All these claims are indistinguishable from imagination.

Please refer to my former post regarding evidence.
My evidence comes from the Baha'i Writings and that is evidence to me whereas it will not be evidence to you since you do not believe in my religion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

dead means dead. all who are dead will remain dead unless a outside force acts to put life back into a body .

At least the odds are set at 1.

Might take a couple of big bangs though. ;0]

 

[cataway]

Also, Baha’u’llah wrote that followers of the one true God will experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, and that death offers every confident believer the gift of everlasting life, bestowing joy and gladness. That sounds like heaven to me and it sounds a lot better than living forever on earth.

evidently Baha’u’llah wrote from hearsay . had he read from scripture he would of known better . what's being described is not heaven. its describing what the earth will be under the kingdom's guidance . no more will there be sickness ,no more death, no lack of food ,no war, no need to fear any animal .even those that have died will live again . that is the promises of joy and gladness

 

[Trailblazer]

evidently Baha’u’llah wrote from hearsay . had he read from scripture he would of known better . what's being described is not heaven. its describing what the earth will be under the kingdom's guidance . no more will there be sickness ,no more death, no lack of food ,no war, no need to fear any animal .even those that have died will live again . that is the promises of joy and gladness

Baha'u'llah wrote according to what He heard from God, He did not need to refer to the Bible.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

I consider what you believe to be a fantasy which is based upon misinterpretation of the Bible.
There will be a Kingdom of God that comes to earth. When the Kingdom of God comes to earth there will be no more poverty, no lack of food and no more war, but that is not the same as the joy and gladness we will experience in heaven. There will always be sickness and death on earth; although as medical science advances there will be less disease, people will continue to die at the end of their life spans.

Nobody who has died will ever live again in a physical body on earth; everyone who dies will live again in a spiritual body in the spiritual world.

Paul was very clear on what will happen when we die. Our physical bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul said these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, Paul was referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I can know an afterlife exists without being able to show it exists

You can't. Note that believing it and knowing it, is not the same thing.

just as I can know that other galaxies exist without being able to show they exist

False. You can not know that without being able to demonstrate it.

This picture demonstrates it:

And that's how we know it. Instead of merely believing it.

I got the information that they exist from science

And science knows it, because it can show it. See picture.

just as I got the information that an afterlife exists from my religion.

Your religion can't show it.
Science can show the galaxies.
Your religion can't show god.

It is evidence by the definition or the word evidence.

Well, I suggest you share this supposed evidence and then we can discuss and evaluate it.

There is no such thing as universal evidence because what is evidence to one person is not evidence to another person.

Good luck with that defense next time you are accused in some courtcase.

Something is evidence to me because it indicates to me that my beliefs are true.

LOL!!
Yeah, that's pretty much what they call "confirmation bias".

Something will not be evidence to you unless it indicates to you that the beliefs are true.

No. Wheter something is evidence or not has exactly zero to do with my beliefs.
If my beliefs don't match the evidence, I dismiss the beliefs - not the evidence.

Why would I? You will just say "that's not evidence."

We'll find out when you share your evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They can shut down consciousness temporarily but not forever,

The guy who OD'ed on heroin, would disagree. Not that he can disagree off course, since he's dead which is forever.

because conscious continues to exist apart from the body and brain since the soul is responsible for consciousness and the soul cannot die.

This is a very bold claim that requires evidence.
Please show me a "soul" that exists absent a brain.

Please refer to my former post regarding evidence.
My evidence comes from the Baha'i Writings and that is evidence to me whereas it will not be evidence to you since you do not believe in my religion.

Words in books are claims.
Claims require evidence.

You are engaging in circular reasoning.

 

[Trailblazer]

You can't. Note that believing it and knowing it, is not the same thing.

I know that what I believe is true and you cannot take that away from me because I have known it for over 50 years.

This picture demonstrates it:

And science knows it, because it can show it. See picture. .

Science can show galaxies in a picture, but can science prove they exist?

I know there is a spiritual world without seeing it because I have heard about it. I do not have to see it because rationally I know that it cannot be seen since it is immaterial.

Your religion can't show it.
Science can show the galaxies.
Your religion can't show god. .

Nobody can show God, but that does not mean that God does not exist.

No. Whether something is evidence or not has exactly zero to do with my beliefs. .

Sure it does. It has to do with your belief that all evidence has to be empirical.

If my beliefs don't match the evidence, I dismiss the beliefs - not the evidence. .

So would I.

 

[Trailblazer]

The guy who OD'ed on heroin, would disagree. Not that he can disagree off course, since he's dead which is forever.

Only his body is dead forever, his soul lived on in the spiritual world where consciousness continues.

This is a very bold claim that requires evidence.
Please show me a "soul" that exists absent a brain.

A soul can never be shown because it is immaterial and it is a mystery of God, so all you can so is read about it in scriptures and apply logical reasoning to what you read. Baha'u'llah wrote the following:

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.” Gleanings, pp. 158-159

“Verily I say, the human soul is, in its essence, one of the signs of God, a mystery among His mysteries. It is one of the mighty signs of the Almighty, the harbinger that proclaimeth the reality of all the worlds of God. Within it lieth concealed that which the world is now utterly incapable of apprehending.” Gleanings, p. 160

Words in books are claims.
Claims require evidence.

Claims can be either true or false. The evidence helps us determine if we will believe claims are true or false but the evidence does not MAKE them true or false -- they are either true or false.

If a man murdered his wife that is the reality so it is true regardless of whether we can find any evidence. There will be evidence somewhere but it might never be discovered. It is the same thing with God and the afterlife; if they exist that is the reality so it is true regardless of whether we can find any evidence. Some of us discover the evidence and some of us don't, but that does not change reality.

 

[cataway]

Baha'u'llah wrote according to what He heard from God, He did not need to refer to the Bible.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

I consider what you believe to be a fantasy which is based upon misinterpretation of the Bible.
There will be a Kingdom of God that comes to earth. When the Kingdom of God comes to earth there will be no more poverty, no lack of food and no more war, but that is not the same as the joy and gladness we will experience in heaven. There will always be sickness and death on earth; although as medical science advances there will be less disease, people will continue to die at the end of their life spans.

Nobody who has died will ever live again in a physical body on earth; everyone who dies will live again in a spiritual body in the spiritual world.

Paul was very clear on what will happen when we die. Our physical bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul said these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, Paul was referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

i can see where it is that you are in error . yes there are some that will be going to heaven . that is not in question. Paul is defiantly one of those invited . Paul wrote about what he knew . did he know how many would be going to heaven ?, not likely. That number was reveled to John and even he did not understand

 

[Trailblazer]

i can see where it is that you are in error . yes there are some that will be going to heaven . that is not in question. Paul is defiantly one of those invited . Paul wrote about what he knew . did he know how many would be going to heaven ?, not likely. That number was reveled to John and even he did not understand

Show me where it says in the Bible that people need to get 'invited' to heaven.
People earn their way into heaven by their faith and their deeds, although God can allow anyone into heaven by His mercy if they reach out for it. I can tell you one thing, nobody remains on earth after they die; only their dead body remains on earth and it remains dead. Everyone who dies goes to the spiritual realm of existence for all of eternity; those who are near to God go to heaven, those who are far from God go to hell. Heaven and hell are not places, they are states of the soul. A soul that has been faithful to God will reflect God's light and return to God whereas a soul who was the victim of self and passion will sink into the depths of hell. That is what Jesus meant when He said in Matthew 16:25-26 that some people would lose their own soul.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

 

[cataway]

Show me where it says in the Bible that people need to get 'invited' to heaven.

“Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage,” Revelation 19:9.

the number of those chosen and invited is 144,000