• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do we really need miracles and heaven and all that?

sugnim

Member
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings. I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another. I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate. It all seems like a big distraction from the profoundly, life-altering spiritual message. Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings. I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another. I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate. It all seems like a big distraction from the profoundly, life-altering spiritual message. Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?
I my view there are intrinsically intertwined. To love that mother who lost her only child and her last living relative and have him raised from the dead is just as much as loving as it was to forgive the woman who was caught in the act and people wanting to kill her.

To see the power of faith to walk on water is intrinsically important to know that it is the same faith that will heal the sick.

And if you believe in the afterlife, it is just as much love to know that you are forgiven on earth as it is to know that Jesus can present you faultless before the Father with joy.

So, I believe one can't be separated from the other. All of it are expressions of love and becomes more that just myths for those who receive it.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings. I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another. I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate. It all seems like a big distraction from the profoundly, life-altering spiritual message. Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?
I tend to agree it can be hard to take them literally, but I don't agree they are just a distraction. Many of them have symbolism that brings to life the teachings or the message that the evangelist is trying to convey, sometimes very powerfully and movingly. The bible would be a lot weaker without them, I think.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings. I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another. I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate. It all seems like a big distraction from the profoundly, life-altering spiritual message. Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?
I tend to lean towards the viewpoint of Spinoza and Einstein on this in that God works through "Nature", which was Spinoza's alternative name for "God". IOW, God and nature may be so intertwined that nature may not be able to be separated in a panentheistic, rather than a pantheistic, manner.

Therefore, what may appear to us as being a "miracle" may well be a natural occurrence that we just don't understand or maybe misinterpret.
 
Last edited:

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
My thought:
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings.
They are teachings. Each miracle is supposed to give a lesson in some way, but the miracle itself will always be unimportant and in some sense arbitrary. Its the lesson that you look for.

I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another.
Walking on water transmits a meaning. Suppose you dream it and are interpreting it based on your Jewish cultural understanding. That's what you are probably supposed to do with it, but walking on water is itself arbitrary and seemingly unnecessary. Its the message that matters, so what is the meaning of walking on water in this situation? Obviously someone who can walk on water could do any number of other things instead, so why this particular thing?

I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate.
I see it as a message about repentance with sin being death and righteous living equal to life. Jesus says these things directly in the gospels, and I take him seriously. I also take Paul's statements about it seriously. To live is Christ. Some of them are harder to understand than others like "If Christ is not raised then your faith is in vain," but its not impossible. If God is no respecter of persons then maybe eternal life isn't talking about what people sometimes assume. Maybe what God cares about is something else, something inhuman.
Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?
They're a bridge to understand. They are a connection to the old paths, which should continue to be of interest. They're bread crumbs to follow back to where we come from, and they are lessons.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the stories of Jesus' supposed miracles and rising from the dead are all a big distraction from his teachings. I don't see how walking on water or raising the dead has anything to do with teaching people to love one another. I don't see how any promise of eternal life or threat of eternal damnation has anything to do with teaching compassion for those less fortunate. It all seems like a big distraction from the profoundly, life-altering spiritual message. Why do we hold on to these myths so tightly? I mean, sure, they're interesting stories, but they don't really feel like religion, philosophy, or spirituality in any way. Thoughts?

Why do we need/want special effect masterpieces to entertain us at the theater along with characters who make great personal sacrifices for the welfare of others?

Miracles were then what superhero powers and the Force is today, the sort of plot device that inspires hope that human effort and values are as important or more important than having raw power. Given that Jesus evidenced through his miracles that he could of come to town to knock 'em down like Thor with a newly forged weapon (Avengers: Infinity Wars (I haven't seen Endgame yet, but will do so next Tuesday))...but chose not to, says it all...
 
Top