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Do we really have free will?

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
John 3:3-4
New International Version

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

...you can no more choose the time and place of your second birth than you chose the time and place of your first.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
JoshuaTree said:
John 3:3-4
New International Version

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

...you can no more choose the time and place of your second birth than you chose the time and place of your first.
Click to expand...
Obviously you cannot choose the time and place of your first birth, but how do you know that you cannot choose the time and place of your second birth? Are you saying that God decides for people whether they will believe? That is as much as saying that some people are chosen and others are not. Based upon scriptures I don't believe that God decides for us. This quote is the first one that comes to mind:

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
Trailblazer said:
Obviously you cannot choose the time and place of your first birth, but how do you know that you cannot choose the time and place of your second birth? Are you saying that God decides for people whether they will believe? That is as much as saying that some people are chosen and others are not. Based upon scriptures I don't believe that God decides for us. This quote is the first one that comes to mind:

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
Click to expand...

Yup, God decides what we believe when, that frustrated Nicodemus as he was a rule based dude, and Jesus was unable to help him.

Be still and let God be God. :)
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
JoshuaTree said:
Yup, God decides what we believe when, that frustrated Nicodemus as he was a rule based dude, and Jesus was unable to help him.

Be still and let God be God. :)
Click to expand...
Jesus could not help those who were determined not to believe but that still does not explain why God would determine who would believe and not, rather than allowing people to choose.
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
Allow people to choose based upon what exactly? My personal opinion is that we are all figments of God's imagination, no harm no foul on God's part if He favors one over the other. We are all part of God's perfect plan whether we realize it or not. Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Pagans, Christians... ALL PLAY AN IMPORTANT PART, that is exactly why Jesus told us to love our neighbor as ourself, not our will be done but God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Do you suppose you will have free will in heaven?
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
Matthew 5:29
New International Version

29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

...is this the choice we have?
 
D

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Even though I believe that God is omniscient, I also believe that ''my'' free will, whether it may be illusory or not, feels real. Seems real. Deciding to post in this thread is known by God before I do it (my belief), but I'm making the choice. (or so it feels that way)

I don't believe that God wants to confuse things, this may be because I've come to overthink free will. :sob:
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.
Click to expand...

i will ramble a bit:

what if we have perfect free will?

what if all choices are ours alone?

but if God is an infinite being, not constrained by time and space, wouldn’t God foresee all that will happen?

foreseeing and knowing is not the same as guiding our actions.

what if God has absolutely no power to alter anything that we choose to do, but maybe subtly nudges us in a good direction? Yet we still can disregard the nudge.

my grandfather always said one sentence whenever I would be ready to go home:
“always do what’s right”.
It was a gentle nudge, but I could chose to ignore it.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
JoshuaTree said:
Allow people to choose based upon what exactly? My personal opinion is that we are all figments of God's imagination, no harm no foul on God's part if He favors one over the other. We are all part of God's perfect plan whether we realize it or not. Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Pagans, Christians... ALL PLAY AN IMPORTANT PART, that is exactly why Jesus told us to love our neighbor as ourself, not our will be done but God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Click to expand...
I agree with all that except that i do not believe that God favors certain people over others.
JoshuaTree said:
Do you suppose you will have free will in heaven?
Click to expand...
No, I do not believe we have free will in heaven. We have something that allows is to progress but it is not free will as we have in this world. It could be that it will be only by the grace of God that we will progress.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
JoshuaTree said:
Matthew 5:29
New International Version

29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

...is this the choice we have?
Click to expand...
Yep, I believe it will be a choice between heaven and hell, although there are 'degrees' of heaven and hell.
Heaven is nearness to God, hell is remoteness from God.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Deidre said:
Even though I believe that God is omniscient, I also believe that ''my'' free will, whether it may be illusory or not, feels real. Seems real. Deciding to post in this thread is known by God before I do it (my belief), but I'm making the choice. (or so it feels that way)

I don't believe that God wants to confuse things, this may be because I've come to overthink free will. :sob:
Click to expand...
I don't believe that free will is an illusion, but I believe it has many constraints, so we cannot do anything we might want to do. God knows what we will do from beginning to end of our because God is all-knowing, but what God knows is not what causes anything to happen. We cause it to happen by doing it.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150
 
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