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Do we have free-will?

Orias

Left Hand Path
Since there is a thread about this in almost every single DIR I figured I would post one here.

Let me know what you think, if you have enough free-will to through your two cents worth in here. I figured the conversation might be a little more interesting and less single sided...if you know what I mean :D
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
There is will, but it is by no means free. "Man is free to do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills."
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
There is will, but it is by no means free. "Man is free to do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills."


Ha, even if the urge is to not urge a will is not given.

Water runs down hill, a will is not given.

I agree, though some of the intersubjective parts are subject to how "free" one is in momentary clarity.

I think of free-will kind of like realizing that in the moment in which you exists, you are capable of manipulating that which you can physically impact, which includes mental and chemical reaction.

We cannot make our tastebuds not taste but we can eat something that tastes good (assuming we have the momentary awareness and physical possibility to do so).
 

Zion4ever

zion4ever
Since there is a thread about this in almost every single DIR I figured I would post one here.

Let me know what you think, if you have enough free-will to through your two cents worth in here. I figured the conversation might be a little more interesting and less single sided...if you know what I mean :D

I think if humans do not have free will--the ability to choose--then actions are morally and religiously insignificant, a murderer who kills because he is compelled to do so would be no different than a righteous person who gives charity because he is compelled to do so.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Of course we have free will. You have to understand the context though. Free Will is the ability to do anything we can do. We cannot fly, so no being able to fly off a building does not mean we have no free will. Nearly everything we do is completely free, with influence of course. But if people influence us it is not making us do something. Hold a gun to my head and tell me to rob a bank, I technically have to do nothing. Can that result in my death? Of course, but I can choose death over robbery if I so choose. The few exceptions include rape and murder. Rape someone or kill them in cold blood you are taking away their free will. Here is the point in the conversation where we can establish absolute and transcendent moral laws that exist outside of subjective opinion.
 

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
I don't know. But every time I've thought about this so far, I've concluded that the difference would be imperceptible. If it changed from one to the other, I don't think you would notice.

Since this is kind of a rationalist question, then taking one step further down the rationalism road, you might be able to say that if the difference is imperceptible, then a difference is meaningless. And if it's imperceptible, meaningless, and without consequences, then you might be able to say that no difference exists.

I'm not entirely sure this is right, but it's what I have so far. The trouble is, how do you properly scrutinize any answer to this question? How could you root out any answer as being poor?
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I assume that I have free will, however, I can only live my life and work my will through the means that I presently have at my disposal. It is my will that I continually develope my most noble aspects and strive towards my highest state of being. One can only Work with what one has.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 
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Orias

Left Hand Path
Like how I have defined "free-will" in other threads.



Free Will- The momentary awareness and recognition to be able to manipulate/influence the self and external beings with mental and physical impacts in accord to the individuals own will.

"Free-will" as per defined by most people does not exist, because we did not will ourselves into existence, our first will was not a choice of ours...unless of course in some previous form of "existence" we did manifest ourselves into such a thing.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Kinda hard to say we have freewill, because if you truly did have freewill you could do something completely random, which isn't possible.

Another thing you could do is turn off all of your survival reflexes, even your heartbeat, because your neurons are creating your decisions, and if you are in control of your neurons, you are in control of your digestive system, heartbeat, etc.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Like how I have defined "free-will" in other threads.



Free Will- The momentary awareness and recognition to be able to manipulate/influence the self and external beings with mental and physical impacts in accord to the individuals own will.

"Free-will" as per defined by most people does not exist, because we did not will ourselves into existence, our first will was not a choice of ours...unless of course in some previous form of "existence" we did manifest ourselves into such a thing.

Yes well who in this DIR likes or agrees with "most people"? Hahah. Who is to say that we did not will ourselves into existence. As always, I personally am speaking from a spiritual POV here, but I think we hardly know enough to know such a thing. If life cycles infinitely through infinite time, there is no reason not to theorize that we reached enlightenment, got bored, and decided to come live as a human being again. To exist as a god would be a completely different experience than living as a human, one we can not really even picture. All things that being of higher consciousness would free is of we are currently bound to: Time, distance / space, thought, feeling, etc. An eternal, all encompassing, all knowing, purely spiritual being may get as bored of that as we do of not knowing and being confined. And so the cycle begins.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
"Free-will" as per defined by most people does not exist, because we did not will ourselves into existence, our first will was not a choice of ours...unless of course in some previous form of "existence" we did manifest ourselves into such a thing.

I remember a black magician saying in an interview that she believed she did Will herself to come into existence upon this Earth. According to her she existed in some pre-Form before her Earthly life and through her will she brought her mother and father together so she could be brought forth into being in human form as a magical child. And from thence she could Evolve into her highest Form of Life. Hey, it's at least an interesting thought.:rolleyes: It is kind of a unique take on the philosophy of Self-directed Self-Creation.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 
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Orias

Left Hand Path
Kinda hard to say we have freewill, because if you truly did have freewill you could do something completely random, which isn't possible.

Another thing you could do is turn off all of your survival reflexes, even your heartbeat, because your neurons are creating your decisions, and if you are in control of your neurons, you are in control of your digestive system, heartbeat, etc.

Neurons do not describe human thought.

I have initial thoughts, then I change my mind.

This I am in control of (most of the time).
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
I remember a black magician saying in an interview that she believed she did Will herself to come into existence upon this Earth. According to her she existed in some pre-Form before her Earthly life and through her will she brought her mother and father together so she could be brought forth into being in human form as a magical child. And from thence she could Evolve into her highest Form of Life. Hey, it's at least an interesting thought.:rolleyes: It is kind of a unique take on the philosophy of Self-directed Self-Creation.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

I chose and pick, I still recognize my father and the fathers before him.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Neurons do not describe human thought.

I have initial thoughts, then I change my mind.

This I am in control of (most of the time).

Our thoughts do not come from nowhere, they come from chemical reactions in the brain gathered by your 5 senses and sometimes pulls from the unconscious side of the mind.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Our thoughts do not come from nowhere, they come from chemical reactions in the brain gathered by your 5 senses and sometimes pulls from the unconscious side of the mind.

They don't come from anywhere, that is for certain.

In your mind, a thousand thoughts are buzzing around, whether you are aware of them or not is subject to what you are in control of.

Your mind.
 

Twig pentagram

High Priest
I don't know. If we have free-will than nothing is predestined. If everything
is predestined than we don't have free-will. It's one of the great mysteries.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I don't know. If we have free-will than nothing is predestined. If everything
is predestined than we don't have free-will. It's one of the great mysteries.

I really have a hard time with the concept of predestination. For it suggests that no matter what I do my life is already mapped out, there is no free will or independence, no matter what I do it's already pre-arranged. It all seems pretty dismal to me.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I really have a hard time with the concept of predestination. For it suggests that no matter what I do my life is already mapped out, there is no free will or independence, no matter what I do it's already pre-arranged. It all seems pretty dismal to me.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

Don't forget that with predestination nobody needs to take responsibility for their actions as we had no choice.
 
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