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Do we have a moral crisis?

Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
Hope you're all well.

Here is an interesting blog at a psych site ...

Scroll down to this list -

There is a —

Moral crisis when there is no objective standard for truth-telling

Moral crisis when success is more important than character

Moral crisis when because of their positions we look to celebrities and business people for wisdom

Moral crisis when we believe we are more important than others

Moral crisis when we believe we are less important than others

Moral crisis when we believe we can flourish alone, without others

Read the rest here -

Today's Spiritual Crisis

Cheers!
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I don't think so, no. We are more touched by a political and economical crisis or at least time of high risks in those domain as revolution in telecommunication, climate change, more vocal minorities and automation are exercising pressure on the status quo in that domain. Confusing governance and economical systems with morality would be an error. In the Western World, humanist and secular ideas on morality are still dominant and are even gaining some strength.
 
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Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Yes the world is crashing in morality. Money have become more important then spiritual development, and money dictate who gain power in the world now, not those of higher spiritual wisdom.
Love and kindness plus compassion toward others should be in focus, not the gain of ego and selvfishness
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Projecting morality into the "we" is problematic because ultimately morality comes down to decision making and action, which is the domain of the individual. It is also a judgement, which is in the domain of the "you."

So while you could interpret society as immoral, it wouldn't be the "we" unless you feel that you are deciding and acting with the majority, which you judge as immoral.

Really, life will continue to change and evolve with us feeling beings in its tumultuous wave, however we judge it. It is up to us as individuals to act however we deem it best to act.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Yes the world is crashing in morality. Money have become more important then spiritual development, and money dictate who gain power in the world now, not those of higher spiritual wisdom.
Love and kindness plus compassion toward others should be in focus, not the gain of ego and selvfishness

When in history exactly was power NOT dictated by military might and fortune exactly? No, the situation right now isn't "good" but there is no such thing as a better past, an era where wisdom, love and kindness were the values that carried people into power.
 

julianalexander745

Active Member
By the exact definitions expressed in the OP, a "moral crisis" is an inherent, ongoing and perennial component of the human condition.

It's kind of silly to ask the question in reference to a much broader context.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
When in history exactly was power NOT dictated by military might and fortune exactly? No, the situation right now isn't "good" but there is no such thing as a better past, an era where wisdom, love and kindness were the values that carried people into power.
At the time of Jesus and Even before that, in the time og Buddha Sakyamuni it was a lot better then now. Not in materalism but in spiritual lifestyle
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
At the time of Jesus and Even before that, in the time og Buddha Sakyamuni it was a lot better then now. Not in materalism but in spiritual lifestyle

So in the time where slavery was a fact of life, the riches gap was higher then today, when kings and emperor ruled with an iron fist, when "justice" was the sole perview of autocrats and where the law treated people differently depending on their birth status, where women were considered at best as children and at worst as chattel, when criminality was about five times higher, war more common and more brutal life, especially spiritual life, was better?

The "spirituality" of Ancient people was not only born out of wisdom and observation of nature but also in fear and powerlesness when faced with tyranny, war, disease, natural disaster and hunger. Our spirituality has changed it hasn't disapeared. Myths and mysticism doesn't hold sole dominion over what could broadly be called "spirituality". Our spirituality is no longer is dominated by fear and slavish devotion to fickle deities that need to be appeased or in rejection of the natural world and of our own nature. Philosophy has supplanted mythology. We have grown and, despite its enormous flaws, made a better world.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
So in the time where slavery was a fact of life, the riches gap was higher then today, when kings and emperor ruled with an iron fist, when "justice" was the sole perview of autocrats and where the law treated people differently depending on their birth status, where women were considered at best as children and at worst as chattel, when criminality was about five times higher, war more common and more brutal life, especially spiritual life, was better?

The "spirituality" of Ancient people was not only born out of wisdom and observation of nature but also in fear and powerlesness when faced with tyranny, war, disease, natural disaster and hunger. Our spirituality has changed it hasn't disapeared. Myths and mysticism doesn't hold sole dominion over what could broadly be called "spirituality". Our spirituality is no longer is dominated by fear and slavish devotion to fickle deities that need to be appeased or in rejection of the natural world and of our own nature. Philosophy has supplanted mythology. We have grown and, despite its enormous flaws, made a better world.
If we look at how religions letting the "sin" be ok with in the religion, then yes moral has decline. If we look how humans treat each other today it has declined. I do not say everything was better at that time. But the spiritual people and non-spiritual people was more separate then now. And today spiritual lifestyle is seen as wierd and stupid.
Today being rich is seen as the good and right. But in fact if we attach to materalistic things, it's more difficult to be spiritual free.

As i said, not everything was good at time of Buddha or Jesus, but in general there where more moral codes then now. Today everything is ok, nothing is wrong to do today. And that is a huge mistake in my view.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
In this part of existance it started a lot around 1950-60 and now it is a lot of bad morality. But it has happend many times in human history. Over longer time you can say it slowly decline from about the time of Jesus until today.

You could. Or you could disagree. I disagree.
Do you see 1938 as more or less moral than today?
1948?
1921?

I dunno.

You pick. I'm not a fan of generalisations in this area, though. It's not fair on those of us not born in Jesus' time, when people were more moral, and making your daughter's rapist make an honest woman of her were both things...
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
As for love, surely.
Romantic love is vilified...and sex can exist only within the consumerism where pleasure is bought as product...and everything stoops to mere lust.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Crashing compared to...when?
Prior to 1914....the world has crashed, in many ways, since WWI.

“Ever since 1914, everybody conscious of trends in the world has been deeply troubled by what has seemed like a fated and predetermined march toward ever greater disaster. Many serious people have come to feel that nothing can be done to avert the plunge towards ruin.”—Bertrand Russell, The New York Times Magazine, September 27, 1953.


The London Evening Star commented that the conflict “tore the whole world’s political setup apart. Nothing could ever be the same again. If we all get the nuclear madness out of our systems and the human race survives, some historian in the next century may well conclude that the day the world went mad was August 4, 1914.”–London Evening Star, quoted in the New Orleans Times-Picayune, August 5, 1960, and The Seattle Times, August 4, 1960, p. 5.


“Half a century has gone by, yet the mark that the tragedy of the Great War left on the body and soul of the nations has not faded . . . The physical and moral magnitude of this ordeal was such that nothing left was the same as before. Society in its entirety: systems of government, national borders, laws, armed forces, interstate relations, but also ideologies, family life, fortunes, positions, personal relations—everything was changed from top to bottom. . . . Humanity finally lost its balance, never to recover it to this day.” (General Charles de Gaulle, Le Monde, Nov. 12, 1968, p. 9)


“Everyone agrees in recognizing that in the whole history of mankind, few dates have had the importance of August 2, 1914.” (Maurice Genevoix, Promise of Greatness)


“Those who lived through the war could never rid themselves of the belief that one world had ended and another begun in August 1914.” (The Generation of 1914, Robert Wohl, Professor of History)


“The whole world really blew up about World War I and we still don’t know why. Before then, men thought that utopia was in sight. There was peace and prosperity. Then everything blew up. We’ve been in a state of suspended animation ever since . . . More people have been killed in this century than in all of history.” (Dr. Walker Percy, American Medical News, November 21, 1977)


“Everything would get better and better. This was the world I was born in. . . . Suddenly, unexpectedly, one morning in 1914 the whole thing came to an end.” (British statesman Harold Macmillan, The New York Times, November 23, 1980)


“The last completely ‘normal’ year in history was 1913, the year before World War I began.” (Times-Herald, Washington, D.C., March 13, 1949)


“In 1914 the world lost a coherence which it has not managed to recapture since. . . . This has been a time of extraordinary disorder and violence, both across national frontiers and within them.” (The Economist)


“The Great War of 1914-18 lies like a band of scorched earth dividing that time from ours.In wiping out so many lives which would have been operative on the years that followed, in destroying beliefs, changing ideas, and leaving incurable wounds of disillusion,it created a physical as well as psychological gulf between two epochs.” (Foreword to The Proud Tower, by Barbara W. Tuchman)


“Neither the old nor the young had any suspicion that what they were witnessing, during that incomparable season of 1914, was, in fact, the end of an era.” (Before the Lamps Went Out, by Geoffrey Marcus)


“[There was] little or no evidence of a steady rise or a ‘snowballing’ of conflicts and tensions leading directly to the outbreak of war.” On the contrary, “by late 1913 and early 1914 . . . relations among the major powers appeared to be more settled than they had been for many years.” (International Crisis, by Eugenia Nomikos and Robert C. North, 1976)


“The effects of World War I were literally revolutionaryand struck deep in the lives of almost all peoples, economically as well as socially and politically.” (Meyers Enzyklopädisches Lexikon)


“The year 1913 marked the close of an era.” (1913 - An End and a Beginning, Virginia Cowles)


“Before 1914 the monetary and the financial systems were compatible. . . . If one takes August 1914 as marking the dividing line between them, the contrasts between the nineteenth and the twentieth centuries are striking. In many aspects of human affairs there has been a complete reversal of trend. . . . One major reason was the severance of the linkage between the financial system and money with intrinsic value that began in 1914. . . . The breaking of the linkage was a momentous event. . . . 1914 marked a radical, and in the end catastrophic, transformationof that system.” (Ashby Bladen, senior vice president The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America)


“By all contemporaneous accounts, the world prior to 1914 seemed to be moving irreversibly toward higher levels of civility and civilization; human society seemed perfectible. The nineteenth century had brought an end to the wretched slave trade. Dehumanizing violence seemed on the decline. . . . The pace of global invention had advanced throughout the nineteenth century, bringing railroads, the telephone, the electric light, cinema, the motor car, and household conveniences too numerous to mention. Medical science, improved nutrition, and the mass distribution of potable water had elevated life expectancy . . . The sense of the irreversibility of such progress was universal.

World War I was more devastating to civility and civilization than the physically far more destructive World War II: the earlier conflict destroyed an idea. I cannot erase the thought of those pre-World War I years, when the future of mankind appeared unencumbered and without limit. Today our outlook is starkly different from a century ago but perhaps a bit more consonant with reality. Will terror, global warming, or resurgent populism do to the current era of life-advancing globalization what World War I did to the previous one? No one can be confident of the answer.” (Alan Greenspan, The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, 2007)


“Those who have an adult’s recollection and an adult’s understanding of the world which preceded World War I look back upon it with a great nostalgia. There was a sense of security then which has never since existed.”(Professor Benjamin M. Anderson, Economics and the Public Welfare)


“Historic events are often said to have ‘changed everything.’ In the case of the Great Warthis is, for once, true. The war really did change everything: not just borders, not just governments and the fate of nations, but the way people have seen the world and themselves ever since. It became a kind of hole in time, leaving the postwar world permanently disconnected from everything that had come before.” (A World Undone, G. J. Meyer, 2006)


“The outbreak of the war in 1914 is the great turning point of the history of humanity. . . . We entered an age of disaster, horror, and hatred, with insecurity everywhere.” (Peter Munch, Danish historian)


“Everywhere, the standards of social behavior—already in decline—were devastated...if the politicians and generals had treated the millions under their care like animals dispatched to slaughter, then what canons of religion or ethics could any longer inhibit men from treating each other with the ferocity of jungle beasts? . . . The slaughter of the First World War thoroughly debased the value of human life.” (Norman Cantor, The Outline of History)


“The Christian Churches are the finest blood-lust creators which we have and of them we made free use.” (Frank Crozier, British Brigadier General)

“Increasingly, the 75-year period from 1914 to 1989, covering two world wars and the cold war, is being seen by historians as a single, discrete epoch, a time apartin which much of the world was fighting war, recovering from war or preparing for war.” (The New York Times, May 7, 1995)
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
You could. Or you could disagree. I disagree.
Do you see 1938 as more or less moral than today?
1948?
1921?

I dunno.

You pick. I'm not a fan of generalisations in this area, though. It's not fair on those of us not born in Jesus' time, when people were more moral, and making your daughter's rapist make an honest woman of her were both things...
I do not talk about physical things or action some few people do, What i talk about i the way people act, Television making more and more war movies, action movies with killing, rape, drugs, and this affect people in a morally negative way. Drugs in general become a bigger problem from 1950 up to today. swearing, treating parents badly, and so on become more visible. less respect for teachers,
Communism become a lot stronger from around 1950 in China, and still they are evil in their communistic leadership

So to answer your question, Yes in my understanding things have become a society with lesser moral value.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Hope you're all well.

Here is an interesting blog at a psych site ...

Scroll down to this list -

There is a —

Moral crisis when there is no objective standard for truth-telling

Moral crisis when success is more important than character

Moral crisis when because of their positions we look to celebrities and business people for wisdom

Moral crisis when we believe we are more important than others

Moral crisis when we believe we are less important than others

Moral crisis when we believe we can flourish alone, without others

Read the rest here -

Today's Spiritual Crisis

Cheers!
Far worse I'd say is the critical thinking crisis. But if you want to classify the current demagougic/authoritarian/ideology-before-reality trip the governments of the Western World are on as a moral crisis, I guess that kinda fits too.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I do not talk about physical things or action some few people do, What i talk about i the way people act, Television making more and more war movies, action movies with killing, rape, drugs, and this affect people in a morally negative way. Drugs in general become a bigger problem from 1950 up to today. swearing, treating parents badly, and so on become more visible. less respect for teachers,
Communism become a lot stronger from around 1950 in China, and still they are evil in their communistic leadership

So to answer your question, Yes in my understanding things have become a society with lesser moral value.

That's not in answer to my question. That's your statement. My question was to ask for a specific year. Give me some chance to refute your point. Otherwise it's 2019 vs your view of history. Doesn't seem fair.

Pick a year.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
The change was afoot well before 1914, but it clearly found it's full expression with WW1. Human cleverness had finally so outstripped human wisdom that an epoch of self-annihilation had finally begun. One that is still playing out in the form of man's inhumanity to man, and one that is still set on the human species erasing itself from existence.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
That's not in answer to my question. That's your statement. My question was to ask for a specific year. Give me some chance to refute your point. Otherwise it's 2019 vs your view of history. Doesn't seem fair.

Pick a year.
Morality does not fade from one day to the other, it does take some time, so how do you want me to say, this year…..… was it the morality dropped to what it is today???? That is not how it works.
So even if i wanted, how do you suppose i can give you one year where everything went to hell?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Morality does not fade from one day to the other, it does take some time, so how do you want me to say, this year…..… was it the morality dropped to what it is today???? That is not how it works.
So even if i wanted, how do you suppose i can give you one year where everything went to hell?

Not asking for that. Just a year you consider clearly the moral superior of the present time. You have a lot to pick from, whereas I'm tying myself to a single year.
 
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