1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do we believe the devil has horns and a pitchfork

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Merlin, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    So did the fall of man make the animal and insect kingdom so savage and so cruel? Did birds not eat insects in those early days?
     
  2. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Ratings:
    +19
    genesis 3:17
    And to Adam he said,
    "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
    and have eaten of the tree
    of which I commanded you,
    'You shall not eat of it,'
    cursed is the ground because of you;
    in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
    18thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
    and you shall eat the plants of the field...

    That's as far as the earth goes, however, it seem likly that the animals were at peace with each other and humans. Ponting to the future restoration of the earth, Isaiah said in chapter 11:6 to vs 9

    6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    If everything that is here now was created then, what did they eat before all this cruelty started? Some insects and spiders only eat things they predate.
     
  4. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Ratings:
    +19


    i'd have thought that there was enough created for everything to live of...
    also, before the flood, humans didn't eat meat, but eat veg. so the animals probably did the same...anyway, i cna't remember why we're on this subject...
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    Spiders only eat captured insects. They don't eat grass or apples. So they were being cruel right from day one.
    Where did that information come from?
     
  6. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Ratings:
    +19
    29Then God said, "See, I have given you every plant that gives seeds that is on the earth, and every tree that has fruit that gives seeds. They will be food for you.
    Man was to have the animals in subjection and to care for them.
    when God gave man those commands he made no suggestion of eating flesh or even drinking milk. It was only until after the flood that God gave man, that is Noah and his family, directions on eating meat. (Indecently, God also spoke of the fear that animals would have of humans in chapter 9.)

    as to the preflood diet of man and animals, think about the situation in Noah’s ark. noah and his family were to take into the ark wild beasts, domestic animals, flying creatures and birds, two each (male and female) of the unclean kind, and seven each of the clean kind, correct?
    and then he was to take into the ark every sort of food that is eaten to “serve as food for you and for them.” Read Genesis 6:19-22
    now Noah had no fridge in the ark to preserve meat in the ark. the seven sheep, seven bulls and cows, seven goats, two horses, two pigs, and so forth, that Noah took into the ark wouldn’t have been enough flesh food for the two lions, two tigers and two of the other wild flesh-eating beasts of today to live on in the ark during the flood.
    he wasn’t told to carry on a slaughterhouse in the ark to feed the wild beasts with flesh foods. nor was he told to catch great amounts of flying or creeping insects to provide fresh food for the creatures today devouring insects.
    noah came out of the ark the following year with no less animals than he took into the ark. well, then, on what did every living thing in the ark live during those twelve lunar months and ten days, or one full solar year, inside the ark? not on flesh, nor on one another.
     
  7. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,617
    Ratings:
    +176
    This is really really new information for me.;)
    Before Noah, everyone everyliving things were vegetarian.
    After the flood, when God has wiped out all evil, leaving the chosen Noah family, who is supposed to be second best make other than Adam, they started turning into carnivorous:bonk:
    Those animals as well, must be the confined space and poor living condition that turned the grass eating tigers into meat eating tigers:bounce
     
  8. Searcher of Light

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Ratings:
    +25
    If Satan had a physical body, he would be the most beautiful being created. He wouldnt be ugly or misformed. He would be the embodiment of all sins and lust. Thus he would be in all ways the most appealing being created to worldy people.
     
  9. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Ratings:
    +19


    Dude, it's the scripture that say that, argue with them. ;)
     
  10. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +49
    I have always wondered where he kept the billions of different insects in the Arc? And what spiders caught in their webs before the flood? Maybe they caught flying carrots.

    I think you will find there is ample evidence of ancient mankind settlements absolutely full of animal bones with the marks of their being butchered. These settlements preceded by millennia the so-called Garden of Eden and the flood.
     
  11. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,672
    Ratings:
    +99
    Define "appealing". What is appealing to some may trauma others for life.
     
  12. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,768
    Ratings:
    +470
    The concept that Satan has powers of his own that rival God is nonsensical to me.

    This is not how Satan is portrayed in the book of Job. He is a servant who does nothing but what God tells him do.

    In my faith "Satan" is part of everyone, but not part of God.

    Satan is the baser nature of man.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  13. Searcher of Light

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Ratings:
    +25
    Appealing is purely individual. He would be pleasant to the fleshly/sinful desires: he would be rich if the person likes wealth; he would be sexiest person in existance if the viewer is sexually oriented. Basically, I am saying he would be decieving and would not be the stereotypical idea of ugliness etc because such appearances would not entice humanity to sin. This is entirely a what if idea of what Satan could look like if he was a physical being.

    Satan is portrayed as a servant that doesnt do what God wants. However, he apparently thought he could win. Otherwise, why challenge God?

    Satan represents man's sinfulness. Personally, I think many men have sinned in ways much greater than the fallen angels could have. Whether or not this is true, or if the fallen angels influenced these sins is purely speculation.

    The appearance of the devil overall is just speculation.
     
  14. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,768
    Ratings:
    +470
    From the Baha`i Writings:
    "You have asked why it was necessary for the soul that was from God to make this journey back to God. Would you like to understand the reality of this question just as I teach it or do you wish to hear it as the world teaches it? -- for if I should answer you according to the latter way, this would be but imitation and would not make the subject clear.
    "The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination. If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds of Africa, would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.
    "It is evident therefore that man is in need of divine education and inspiration; that the spirit and bounties of God are essential to his development. That is to say, the teachings of Christ and the prophets are necessary for his education and guidance. Why? Because they are the divine gardeners who till the earth of human hearts and minds. They educate man, uproot the weeds, burn the thorns and remodel the waste places into gardens and orchards where fruitful trees grow. The wisdom and purpose of their training is that man must pass from degree to degree of progressive unfoldment until perfection is attained. For instance, if a man should live his entire life in one city, he cannot gain a knowledge of the whole world. To become perfectly informed he must visit other cities, see the mountains and valleys, cross the rivers and traverse the plains. In other words, without progressive and universal education, perfection will not be attained. "
    (Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77)

    When we heed the call of spirit we defeat the call of ourbaser nature, which is symbolized as "Satan".

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  15. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,127
    Ratings:
    +37,785
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    I do not believe that the devil has a pitchfork with which to toss souls into the flaming pit. This is 2005. It is obvious to me that the devil has gotten with the times and traded in his pitchfork for a massive front end loader manufactured by Catapillar Tractor Corporation.
     
  16. blood-lord14

    blood-lord14 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1
    well by asking we i honestly do not see such a weak image of satan
    in fact i have no reason to fear such a belief so don't worry
    pitchfork=farmer
    horns=cattle
    demon=slaughter
    "farmer slaughters cattle you must stop it or else a desease will arise"
    now here is another image
    hand=cover
    light=belief
    face=baby
    "the hand of jesus is meant to cover your fears away,the light he carries is your god,the face of jesus is a baby that explains why he was so hard to keep away from"
    understand ,if a picture says one thousand words let me translate ;) .
     
Loading...