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Featured Do we ask our self the wrong questions about God?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Amanaki, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    I understand that when someone reads the Bible and maybe especially the Old testament they can think God is something evil or want to harm people.

    Question:1

    But here is a question for everyone.
    Can it be that what we can read in the bible of the "negative" things that can happen is not because God want to harm us, but it is a warning of what will happen to us if we do not follow what God asks of us? (God, in this case, is the God/Buddha and so on in the religion you follow, not only the Christian God)

    Question:2

    Can it be that what we see as God is more of the universal law, that what we as humans think, say or do affect what we experience because, if we do not follow the law of the universe it is when we experience suffering?

    So example the Coronavirus is not because God punishes us, but because we as human beings do not follow the law of the universe, but we follow the law made by human beings? or even worse. Not follow even human laws.
     
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  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    That is what it says, many times, in the Tanach.
     
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  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    So if I understand you correct, you also see that it is human's own "fault" that we experience suffering and that humans say it is God's fault when it is truly our own fault?
     
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  4. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    I would ask self as a human why they always said if you alter natural then karma will attack you...as a personal human self life teaching.

    Natural in a human assessment says it is owner of natural order.

    Therefore there is no excuse for wanting to force it to change.

    As natural order also already owned destructive cause, then we already knew that natural order belongs to being harmed.

    So humans were fully and completely self aware in natural life...so never owned an excuse to want to change natural.
     
  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    Essentially, yes.
    "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil." (Deut. 30:15)
    "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed." (Deut. 30:19)

    God gave us the ability to choose between good and evil and explained that choosing good leads to certain consequences, and choosing evil leads to other consequences. What we choose to do is up to us.
     
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  6. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    This is essentially the same view as Buddhism, except the concept of God is absent.
    Buddhism is more apophatic than kataphatic, but the end result is the same.
     
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  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly, Judaism also refers to God in more apophatic terms. For example, God is called "The Living God", so as to not attribute death to Him, but His life is not the same life that humans have, which, among other things, goes hand in hand with death.
     
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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    It is our own selves that keep us from God, keep us from what it is to Love.

    Regards Tony
     
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  9. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    Yes, it's important to have some form of morality, or even faith in something. Ethics determine everything.
    Some of us do follow universal law as best we can, sometimes the human error of others is at least partly to blame.
    It's lack of care for other humans. No matter how this virus got started, people have acted irresponsibly. So yes, I'm understanding you. It's interesting how humans can resist what ought to make sense to all of us.

    Off topic: I'm still unsure what my true path is. :(
     
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  10. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    As does Catholic theology, there is no 'correct' way to speak of God, only a least 'wrong way'. God is 'love' but not the human concept of love, but 'agape'.
     
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  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I always find it disturbing how much this concept sounds just like the rationalisation victims of domestic violence wrap themselves in. Doing harm to people because they're not doing what you want them to doesn't make it OK.

    Except there isn't any simple "universal law" where people who don't follow it consistently suffer while those who do are consistently fine. While making bad decisions can certainly lead to suffering, we're not always conscious the the decisions we make are bad beforehand and a whole load of luck is involved in the actual outcomes.

    What "laws" would, if followed, be certain to prevent us from contracting any kind of infectious virus?
     
  12. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    The way i see it (others probably see it differently) is that the universal law of karma is in the picture here, where those who have less good karma will experience more suffering because that is the way nature works. so those who do not have much karma will have much virtue and thereby be more protected from feeling sick or even have any form of symptoms that are seen as suffering.
    Virus the way science can see it today is not what it is in its most true existence. So far science can only see and understand the visual aspect of karma, but they do not see what is behind it all. Just like science can not detect God because God can not be seen in this realm of physical existence.
     
  13. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Love everyone, meditate often

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    Wash your hands and stay inside? It might not be 100% effective, but for the most part it would do the job.
     
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    That is demonstrably not how it happens in nature. For a start, the concept of karma can only possibly apply to humans and not any other animals because other animals (certainly the vast majority) don't have the intelligence to make conscious moral decisions.

    Within humans, it is clear that "bad" things happen to "good" people and vice-versa all the time. If there was any kind of direct link between behaviour and direct outcomes, we wold have been able to identify it a long time ago. After all, we long ago began to identify he behaviours and actions that actually influence the spread of infectious disease and over time discovered the direct causes behind those patterns.

    Science doesn't detect things, it is a set of methods by which we identify and measure the ways in which we can detect things. If you're saying God can't be detected "by science" you're saying God can't be detected full stop. Of course, that raises the question of how you (or anyone else) can make such detailed and definitive statements about the nature, abilities and desires of this undetectable God.
     
  15. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Personally i see "God" or truth in everything that is around us even here on earth. God /Buddha is not a physical being that sits on a cloud looking down at us here on earth, it is a realization of truth.. my understanding of God is probably not even close to what it truly is. But to me, we can only "see" or understand God if we realize what truth is, but when I say realizing the truth, it means you will realize the truth in a different way then I do. So even if we tried to see God the same way, we could not see or understand it the same. God is within you in wisdom, and without the wisdom one is blind when it comes to spiritual understanding.
     
  16. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    That might be true if you don't view God as the creator and also view him as being unable to prevent the consequences of not following his instructions.

    If you view him as the omnipotent creator of the universe, God would have deliberately set things up so that there are negative consequences for not following his instructions. He would also be able to prevent those consequences but chooses not to.

    To illustrate this, imagine that you've been put in a deathtrap akin to those in the SAW films. The trap will rip you to pieces if you don't follow a set of instructions to escape.

    If the person who wrote the instructions didn't build the trap, didn't put you in it and can't get you out of it themselves, it's fair to say they were just doing their best to warn you about what you should and shouldn't do. That's akin to the non-omnipotent, non-creator interpretation of God.

    If the person who left the instructions also built the trap, put you in it and can easily get you out themselves, then they are entirely responsible for your predicament. It was them who set things up in such a way that you either follow their instructions or die. That's akin to the omnipotent creator interpretation of God.

    Again, the question you have to ask is who set up those laws? If God did, then we're back to him putting you in a SAW trap. If God set up a system by which human thoughts, words and actions can trigger natural disasters then it would also appear he isn't especially fussy about who gets hit by them. Perhaps when I stub my toe and shout, "Jesus Christ that hurt!" I've unintentionally given an African child malaria.

    Alternatively, you could take God out of the picture entirely and hold that sometimes bad things just happen. Sometimes we can prevent them, sometimes we can't. Sometimes we deserve it, sometimes we don't. Things weren't designed that way, it's just how they are.

    That's my preferred explanation for why bad things happen. Adding an omnipotent creator just complicates things in my opinion.
     
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  17. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    I am very aware that I do not hold the full answer to what God truly is. But one thing I been thinking of is that it looks like many people see God in a Human way, with all the faults and error we humans hold. and many use their own understanding of how they think God should be, instead of trying to find what God actually is. We put our own personal ego into God and say, you have to be like this, or I will not believe in you.

    That sounds like a path to failure. I think we must take away human thought and opinion of what God should be. and see God more like our own inner wisdom, but without the wisdom, God will be invisible to us.

    (PS. when i speak of inner wisdom, it is not within the physical body)
     
  18. Fayaz

    Fayaz New Member

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    The answer is simple.
    1) God created humans and gave them free will (u r self witness for this)
    2) He wants to see who will do good and bad according the rules set by God (as He creator and owner of humans & earth)
    3) Good (according to God's rule) shall be rewarded
    4) Bad (according to God's rule) shall be punished
     
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  19. Fayaz

    Fayaz New Member

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    Exactly, as I said earlier, God sees actions of all people both who follow Him and who Don't follow Him.
    God punishes evil done by man to purify the earth with goodness as u purify ur house.
     
  20. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    To my mind, there are no "wrong" questions to be asked about God. It is such an amorphous and unknowable thing that any and all questions we can possibly ask and any lines of inquiry we can investigate are necessary in order to try and pin this thing down.

    Now... the real problem comes in if this God character/thing/whatever does not exist. In that situation, we are running around, asking one another questions about something, and creating pathways of investigation that seem to lead absolutely nowhere. I say "seem to" because there is that odd property of contemplating "God" that seems to allow people a chance at self reflection. Hmmm... isn't that interesting. "SELF" reflection when contemplating God. SELF. Now why would that be, I wonder.... hmmm...
     
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