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Do Voters Share the Blame for Trump?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by youknowme, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I wonder if Obamaphones secured a second term. If so, it would show just how dumb people really are.

    giphy-4.gif

    ...Probably not though, since we have electoral colleges. But it might have gained him the popular vote.
     
    #81 Landon Caeli, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  2. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Just another Vietnam where the political leadership and public do not have the resolve to use tactics required to end ISIS and the like.

    Or people are sick of twenty years of failure
     
  3. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    right. The same church that systematically hides abuse of children? And no, it's not just confined to the catholic church.

    Worse: the bible, which most churches use, is an immoral book.

    So no. Your advice is poor.
     
  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to the current self-admitted rapist? Who only wants to lower taxes for the very richest of the rich? Who is a known criminal.
     
  5. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    You misspelled "tax decrease" here.
     
  6. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Churches are hardly examples of actual morality..you know; honor, honesty, integrity, ethics...things that are also essential leadership qualities?
    And it's not just ethical leadership that's important, but also competent leadership. Trump isn't fit to operate a fry vat, much less serve as POTUS. It's astounding how so many have taken such pride in having extremely low standards, and it's dragging this nation down. It's pathetic.
     
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  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Oh, really?
    You haven't noticed blue state Dems complaining about their
    much higher income taxes due to loss of deductions, eh.
    So....
    How do you think taxation relative to real estate has changed?
     
  8. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    What exactly does Hillary have to do with Trump's character, conduct, and performance?
     
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  9. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    How is that not what republicans do when it comes to LGBT rights, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, 'blue laws', etc? The right has a terrible record when it comes to liberty.
     
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  10. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Yet you cheerlead for the party that pushes the evangelical agenda...:rolleyes:
     
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  11. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    It's gone down for the wealthiest of the wealthy, whereas it's gone up for the middle class and lower class.

    Also, due to the careful manipulations of the RePugs' "tax reform"? Most middle and lower income have had to pay considerably higher state taxes, too.

    Only tЯump's wealthy owners have seen any benefit from his draconian policies. And, seeing as how, by a huge majority, all the RePug/CONservatives politicos are among the top wealthiest class?

    This was all according to their plan...
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Around the same time pro-war conservatives became non-interventionists. Both sides tend to flip-flop on an issue depending on who's at the helm. Liberal and conservative alike are guilty of such hypocrisy.
     
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  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    The loss of primary residence deductions over $10K/yr is
    a tax increase for the wealthier ones, & only for them.
     
    #93 Revoltingest, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
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  14. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Chicken feed to that crowd. Less than the cost of the salary of the guy who buffs out their limos...

    Less than what they pay their security people that monitor their properties. Less than they pay for the upkeep on their vehicle fleets....

    Less than the fees they pay to their various club memberships..

    But 10k a year? Is 1/2 the income of the lowest income brackets... and would have been a significant benefit...
     
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  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I don't think you're looking at this the way I am.
    Let's say you have a house with $50K/year property taxes.
    And your mortgage loan has $50K/year in interest.
    $50K -$10K + $50K -$10K = $80K of deductions lost.
    This would mean a tax increase on the order of $25K/yr.
    And there are other deductions lost which affect only
    the landed gentry.
     
  16. Rough Beast Sloucher

    Rough Beast Sloucher Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

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    There were already limits to allowable Federal deductions in the higher income brackets. Anyone with $50K/year in mortgage payments and the same sum in property taxes probably did not get to use much of that as deductions to begin with. That is, the tax changes concerning deductions meant little or nothing to them. The real killer was not allowing state and local income taxes as deductions. It is exactly the more liberal states that have the higher state and local taxes, and the increased federal standard deduction would often not make up for that. The biggest impact would typically be on the young professional who has not yet established strong roots in the state and is able to move elsewhere to end up with more money. Whether this was intentional or not, it would amount to the liberal states having less tax revenue to support their liberal policies. Things are often not what they seem.
     
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  17. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Chicken feed. Less than the fees they pay to their various "clubs".
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    If the changes I cited didn't mean much, then I wonder why Democrats
    are so noisily carping about the injustice of their tax increases?
    Ref....
    How Republicans are punishing blue states
    They wanted taxes raised on the wealthy...but some other wealthy, eh.

    What's really going on here is that it serves Democrats to portray tax reform
    solely as "tax cuts for the wealthy". But the reality is something else.
    Btw, what's happened to federal tax revenue since the changes in Dec 2017?
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I've no argument against such a quantified rebuttal.
     
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  20. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Same with the left.
    They Want To Use 'Hate Speech Laws' To Destroy Freedom Of Speech In America

    But it's not actually left vs. right... It's those who are either unaware or don't care that they're imposing their own morals or "values" onto others.

    We need to make a conscious effort as Americans to stop doing this IMO.
     
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