Do the scriptures show that Jesus Christ is the LORD GOD of the OT?

[InChrist]

[FONT=&quot]Since Jesus Christ lived on earth there has been a lot of controversy concerning His deity. Many have spent much time and effort in denying that Jesus was God who came and lived in human form. Why is this and what do the scriptures show?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I believe there is abundant evidence in the Bible to show that Yahweh in the OT is revealed as Jesus Christ in the NT. I will only list a few scriptural points below.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-Prepare the way of the LORD
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Speaking of the LORD Isaiah wrote in the OT:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Isa. 40:3).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Referring to Jesus Christ Matthew wrote in the NT:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: “A voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him’” (Mt. 3:1-3).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire (Mt. 3:11).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]According to Matthew, Isaiah wrote about John the Baptist, who was to prepare the way forthe Lord, or as Isaiah wrote the LORD (YHWH). Yet, it was John who prepared the way for Jesus Christ. This shows that Jesus Christ is YHWH the LORD GOD.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord of Lords
The scriptures also show that God (YHWH) is the Lord of Lords.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In Dt. 10:17 of the OT it says: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes (Dt. 10:17).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In the book of Revelation, which is the revelation of Jesus Christ, He is called Lord of Lords:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers (Rev. 17:14).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev. 19:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In the OT, YHWH is called the Lord of Lords and in the NT it is revealed that Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-A Stone
In the OT Isaiah describes the LORD as a stone that causes men to stumble:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread, and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare (8:13,14).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then in the NT Peter says:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for (1 Pet. 2:7,8).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]So again the scriptures show that Jesus Christ is YHWH the LORD GOD Almighty.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-Rock
Paul verifies this in the NT:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I believe rather than submit to the SON who is God Himself as the one and only Savior human nature prefers to do things their own way whether one is secular or religious. According to the scriptures this prideful, rebellious attitude originated with Lucifer, who is now called Satan and he continues to encourage it in each person’s mind.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 1 Tim. 3:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I think it is interesting that John 3:16 probably the most well-known bible verse, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life, has the same reference numbers as 1 Timothy 3:16 which says, And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I believe the scriptures portray that the Son has eternally existed with the Father and it is the Son who has interacted with humans throughout history doing the will of His Father. He was called YHWH in the OT and given titles and descriptions as: Lord of Lords, Rock, Redeemer, Judge, Savior, Shepherd, Light, Alpha and Omega, First and the Last. He is called Jesus Christ in the NT and given the same titles and descriptions. I don’t think there are any accidents or coincidences in the scriptures, 1Timothy 3:16 along with John 3:16 (and many others) show that Jesus Christ is God and the importance of believing in the real Savior Jesus Christ in order to have eternal life and avoid perishing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Finally, I believe the scriptures also show that among those who knew Jesus Christ as Paul, the other apostles and His early followers there was no controversy concerning Christ's deity.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh.[/FONT]

 

[Valjean]

The personalities don't mesh, if you ask me.
Jesus was all about love and harmony and toleration. The OT YHWH was more about war and destruction and helping his chosen people conquer territory.

 

[Skwim]

Since Jesus Christ lived on earth there has been a lot of controversy concerning His deity. Many have spent much time and effort in denying that Jesus was God who came and lived in human form. Why is this and what do the scriptures show?

I see no mystery here. Many people don't believe the Bible is good enough evidence; hence, they don't care what the scriptures show.

 

[InChrist]

I see on mystery here. Many people don't believe the Bible is good enough evidence; hence, they don't care what the scriptures show.

You are right many don't care what the scriptures show, but some do.

 

[InChrist]

The personalities don't mesh, if you ask me.
Jesus was all about love and harmony and toleration. The OT YHWH was more about war and destruction and helping his chosen people conquer territory.

Actually, I believe the personality of God encompasses love and judgment.

 

[Skwim]

Actually, I believe the personality of God encompasses love and judgment.

And don't forget evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

 

[InChrist]

And don't forget evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

No, let's not forget to understand evil...



The Varied Use of “Evil” in the Scriptures

"2.On the other hand, “evil” may refer to a disaster of some sort. In discussing the punishment that would be visited upon Israel for her wickedness, Isaiah declared:

“For you have trusted in your wickedness; you have said, ‘No one sees me;’ [but] your wisdom and your knowledge, it has perverted you, and you have said in your heart, I am, and there is no one else besides me. Therefore shall evil come upon you; you will not know the dawning thereof: and mischief shall fall upon you; you will not be able to put it away: and desolation shall come upon you suddenly, of which you know not.” (Isa. 47:10-11; emp. supplied).Observe the parallelism in this text. The “evil” of verse 11a becomes the “mischief” and the “desolation” in the latter portion of the passage. The “evil” of which the prophet spoke, actually was the impending Babylonian captivity (see also Jer. 18:8).

Similarly, when the prophet Amos warned the northern kingdom of Israel of its eventual doom, he referred to that time of temporal judgment as the “evil day,” which, of course, ultimately was the Assyrian invasion (722/21 B.C.)."

Did God Create "Evil"? : ChristianCourier.com


Did God create evil?

"At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good."
Did God create evil?

 

[Skwim]

No, let's not forget to understand evil...

The Varied Use of “Evil” in the Scriptures

"2.On the other hand, “evil” may refer to a disaster of some sort. In discussing the punishment that would be visited upon Israel for her wickedness, Isaiah declared:

“For you have trusted in your wickedness; you have said, ‘No one sees me;’ [but] your wisdom and your knowledge, it has perverted you, and you have said in your heart, I am, and there is no one else besides me. Therefore shall evil come upon you; you will not know the dawning thereof: and mischief shall fall upon you; you will not be able to put it away: and desolation shall come upon you suddenly, of which you know not.” (Isa. 47:10-11; emp. supplied).Observe the parallelism in this text. The “evil” of verse 11a becomes the “mischief” and the “desolation” in the latter portion of the passage. The “evil” of which the prophet spoke, actually was the impending Babylonian captivity (see also Jer. 18:8).

Similarly, when the prophet Amos warned the northern kingdom of Israel of its eventual doom, he referred to that time of temporal judgment as the “evil day,” which, of course, ultimately was the Assyrian invasion (722/21 B.C.)."

Did God Create "Evil"? : ChristianCourier.com

Gee, I wonder why he left out the most common notion of evil: purposefully moral bad or wrong; wicked. But no matter what kinds of acts the term encompasses, god was responsible for them all. He may as well have said "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil in all its forms: I the LORD do all these things."

Did God create evil?

"At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good."
Did God create evil?

Now that's downright asinine. Cold does exists. It's the state of slow molecular motion. You may as well say heat doesn't exist; it's the absence of cold. And darkness does exist. Would you say the color black on a piece of paper doesn't exist because it's the absence of reflected light? "Hey had me that can of light absent paint."

But this cold and darkness silliness aside, even if evil was the absence of good, allowing it to manifest is in effect creating it. A stupid remark like "God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good." makes it sound like evil was waiting in the wings to make its appearance on stage, and god, instead of holding evil back did nothing to stop if from performing. Electing not to stop a wrong is no less immoral than doing that wrong. So while I agree that "god did not have to create evil," according to the Bible he did. Creating evil or letting it out of the jar amounts to the same thing. Take your pick. It makes no difference; god's the culprit either way

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Where the debate gets tricky is that Jews believe the OT was mistranslated to accomodate Christian's desire to find prophecies of JC in the OT.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are right many don't care what the scriptures show, but some do.

Using the scriptures to "prove" the scriptures - if you can do it in a way that works - only gets you to internal consistency.

Even Star Trek has that, but the USS Enterprise still doesn't actually exist.

 

[Me Myself]

The scriptures clearly say that Jesus is Eliseo and Juan Baptist was Elias