Do the Jews Have a God?

[Ingledsva]

Do the Jews Have a God?

If Yeshua according to the Tanakh is physically David with the spirit of the Lord (YHVH) upon him, and the Jews don't accept the fulfillment of these prophecies, they virtually no longer accept the Messiah, David, Salvation (Yeshua), and YHVH.

Now we could say the Jews are still determined that they should only worship the God Most High (El Elyon); which is a good statement to make.... The only issue with this is the Most High has no image, and YHVH Elohim appears multiple times in human form.

Thus when YHVH is an Elohim, which from its descriptions within the Tanakh is an Arch-Angel/Avatar/Elder, who came as Yeshua; then what or who do they now worship?

Wow! That is really convoluted.

Why would their not accepting Jesus (whom did NOT fulfill prophecy,) - as their Messiah, - and which was not ever a god, - mean they don't have a God?

*

 

[wizanda]

Why would their not accepting Jesus (whom did NOT fulfill prophecy,)

Zechariah 11, Jeremiah 25, Isaiah 8, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 28, Habakkuk 2, Daniel 9, Zechariah 2-5, Ezekiel 1-7, etc.... Think we're dealing with different concepts of what the Messiah has to do.

Yeshua divorced Judah/Israel, as their 3 foolish shepherds chose to pay 30 pieces of silver, which was put in the potters field in the house of Israel (Zechariah 11).

Because they falsify text after to create him into being a sin offering, and an idol, this creates the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9), which causes their own destruction, and Diaspora.

Therefore only Yeshua can be the Messiah, as only Yeshua fulfilled the precursors of divorcing Israel, no one else has that authority, and the proof is what has happened.

and which was not ever a god, - mean they don't have a God?

Yeshua is the spirit of YHVH...

The modern Jews think YHVH is God, and not just an Elohim in the council of Elohim, which are below the God Most High (El Elyon), possibly since the return from the Babylonian Exile.

So they don't accept YHVH anymore, as that was Yeshua...They don't accept the God Most High....

Thus since they've dismissed everything, not sure what they follow anymore.

 

[wizanda]

Or maybe anyone daring to disagree with you and pointing out your errors is the bad manners you object to.

The objections are to the condescending attitude, that seems to stem from Rabbinical educated Jews, that think they're superior to everyone else, like we're all just dumb animals, and not even human.

The snarky, scoffing and mocking, like anything not understood by Rabbinic Judaism must be wrong, as they've all got ultimate logic, and can not be questioned.

Love being disagreed with by the way, if a logical reasoning can be shown...

Yet I've not found Rabbinic Judaism logical in its deduction from the text, and instead of the followers questioning, they're one of the rudest religious groups I've communicated with, who will not accept they can be wrong.

 

[Ingledsva]

Zechariah 11, Jeremiah 25, Isaiah 8, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 28, Habakkuk 2, Daniel 9, Zechariah 2-5, Ezekiel 1-7, etc.... Think we're dealing with different concepts of what the Messiah has to do.

Yeshua divorced Judah/Israel, as their 3 foolish shepherds chose to pay 30 pieces of silver, which was put in the potters field in the house of Israel (Zechariah 11).

Because they falsify text after to create him into being a sin offering, and an idol, this creates the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9), which causes their own destruction, and Diaspora.

Therefore only Yeshua can be the Messiah, as only Yeshua fulfilled the precursors of divorcing Israel, no one else has that authority, and the proof is what has happened.

Yeshua is the spirit of YHVH...

The modern Jews think YHVH is God, and not just an Elohim in the council of Elohim, which are below the God Most High (El Elyon), possibly since the return from the Babylonian Exile.

So they don't accept YHVH anymore, as that was Yeshua...They don't accept the God Most High....

Thus since they've dismissed everything, not sure what they follow anymore.

Again - that is what YOU think. I don't think that. And obviously the Jews whose Tanakh it is - don't agree with you either.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

...

So they don't accept YHVH anymore, as that was Yeshua...They don't accept the God Most High....

Thus since they've dismissed everything, not sure what they follow anymore.

Forgot this part.

You have no proof that Jesus/Iēsous has anything to do with YHVH.

They don't have to take anything written about Jesus, by people after his death - as truth.

People that read Hebrew, and are Jews, - have told you are wrong in your understanding of the words.

*

 

[rosends]

The objections are to the condescending attitude, that seems to stem from Rabbinical educated Jews, that think they're superior to everyone else, like we're all just dumb animals, and not even human.

These are things you project and then find, not that are there. Just because I tell you that you are wrong, and explain the language issues or provide substantiated context doesn't mean that I am superior. Just that your understanding is lacking.

The snarky, scoffing and mocking, like anything not understood by Rabbinic Judaism must be wrong, as they've all got ultimate logic, and can not be questioned.

Most of this is probably just mirroring the condescending attitude presented by someone who claims that without an NDE or his personal understanding, no one else understands some "riddle" that he insists pervades the entire text.

Yet I've not found Rabbinic Judaism logical in its deduction from the text, and instead of the followers questioning, they're one of the rudest religious groups I've communicated with, who will not accept they can be wrong.

You haven't found what you only recently said you would not study. That might lead to not understanding.

 

[wizanda]

And obviously the Jews whose Tanakh it is

It isn't theirs, it is a collection of writings, where some of it is ascribed for the world....

They were meant to be sharing it with the world, and help people understand it; not lord it over them, that they're the superior race.

Plus this statement then says a lot about the rest of your comprehension.... Lets take a few verses into account.

Isaiah 43:27-28 Your first father sinned, and your mockers have transgressed against me. (28) Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel an insult.”

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to my chosen; and the Lord Yahweh will kill you. He will call his servants by another name,

According to the Tanakh these Pharisaic imposters are not the real Jews, else they'd understand more of what is going on.

Zechariah 8:13 It shall come to pass that, as you were a curse among the nations, house of Judah and house of Israel, so I will save you, and you shall be a blessing. Don’t be afraid. Let your hands be strong.

This is just after the Tribulation, just before the Messianic age with those who've accepted the Marvelous Work of the Lord (Yeshua).

don't agree with you either.

It is good they don't agree; it just proves the snare that is within the Biblical text has made their bonds strong, due to them mocking the things from God (Isaiah 28:22)...

Tho i do feel sorry for them, as they've just been lied to by their blind shepherds; which is why come back before the day, to see if can help.

You have no proof that Jesus/Iēsous has anything to do with YHVH.

Unfortunately there is overwhelming evidence, there are the many prophecies already posted, with some specifically having his name there.

So when Isaiah 52:10 has Yeshuat Eloheinu, identifying the Servant in Isaiah 53, and interlinking with Psalms 98; saying we shall physically see YHVH's Salvation, there is loads of evidence when we look properly.

They don't have to take anything written about Jesus, by people after his death - as truth.

On its own agreed, why would anyone take just one account of a case; when all the evidence is placed together, it is then quite clear it happened as prophesied.

Yet as you might have heard me say, they should also use the Law, and dissect the case carefully, as John, Paul and Simon are the deception prophesied.

Though they don't even bother with the case, they deny any of it is from the Lord, and go out of their way to dismiss any of it as relevant.

People that read Hebrew, and are Jews, - have told you are wrong in your understanding of the words.

Many have pedantically gone, 'that isn't a noun', 'it isn't a name', 'how can it be a metaphor in a metaphoric book'; unfortunately find this to be a mental deficiency from what they've been stating, and then you're going 'look how logical they are'.

These are things you project

Not projecting in the slightest, and can dissect all the little condescending comments to show how there is an obstinate authority being asserted a lot of the time by many.

Most of this is probably just mirroring the condescending attitude presented by someone who claims that without an NDE or his personal understanding

Not sure you understand the word condescending properly...

Considering my level of authority in comparison, and generally I'm trying to answer the questions, not be belittling, and try very hard not to react with 'you' or making personal statements, think you're really missing the point if you think I'm being condescending.

no one else understands some "riddle" that he insists pervades the entire text.

My experience doesn't dictate what we find in the Biblical text, it does... The riddle can be shown by the many complexities ascribed...

Now just as it doesn't say in big bold letters, 'This bit is a riddle', doesn't mean it isn't one. <- This is a condescending statement, as it refers to you being like a child, who needs big text to be told how to think. Sorry.

you would not study.

I'd always take a look at things, and am open to investigating... Just lowering my expectations to avoid disappointment.

 

[rosends]

Not projecting in the slightest, and can dissect all the little condescending comments to show how there is an obstinate authority being asserted a lot of the time by many.

Actually, you are. You see authority as an impediment because it supplants you as an authority so you decide that any claim to authority demeans you. You have projected your sense of inferiority onto the authority as condescending.

Not sure you understand the word condescending properly...

I understand it perfectly. It is apparent when someone with no background other than his own claims of expertise insists that he is an authority and that all others are therefore wrong. Oh wait...here it comes:

Considering my level of authority in comparison,

and...scene.

and generally I'm trying to answer the questions, not be belittling, and try very hard not to react with 'you' or making personal statements, think you're really missing the point if you think I'm being condescending.

When you speak in parables about other people's understanding as that of cursed mice because you claim something or that an entire religion is a made up "cover up" and that an entire people doesn't "see it" when only you can see it and everyone has to follow you or be called arrogant (all things you have done) I see condescension. You hold (in your own mind) a position because of your claim to "first hand" experience with God and no one can match up to you. Condescension. Phrases like that you were "sent from Heaven to explain things, and people reject what I've been sent with"

My experience doesn't dictate what we find in the Biblical text, it does... The riddle can be shown by the many complexities ascribed...

It exists because you decide it does. Somehow, many, many people have never seen things the way you do and can show perfectly reasonable understandings of the text. But your response is simply that they are all wrong and God told you, personally, otherwise.

Now just as it doesn't say in big bold letters, 'This bit is a riddle', doesn't mean it isn't one. <- This is a condescending statement, as it refers to you being like a child, who needs big text to be told how to think. Sorry.

That isn't condescending. It is textually accurate. The text doesn't need to label itself in each case. Maybe you don't truly understand what "condescending" means. Unfortunately, in your attempt, you ignored that you cannot assume to be the only one who knows how to think so you can invent and apply labels to the text.

I'd always take a look at things, and am open to investigating... Just lowering my expectations to avoid disappointment.

And refusing to study the resources I named which would have answered your questions. Got it.

 

[wizanda]

You see authority as an impediment because it supplants you as an authority so you decide that any claim to authority demeans you.

Not in the slightest, authority really doesn't bother me, and unfortunately claiming because you speak a language, makes you more knowledgeable on the things of God is just delusional.

Fair enough my statements, 'Do the Jews have a God", causes abrasion i accepted that on making the statement...

Yet personally I'd investigate any claim; instead of just dismissing everything as a waste of time.

It is apparent when someone with no background other than his own claims of expertise insists that he is an authority

Again just like happened to the prophets... Unfortunately there is no university yet, to get a recognized qualification on the things of God...

Condescension. Phrases like that you were "sent from Heaven to explain things, and people reject what I've been sent with"

See i knew you didn't understand what condescending meant:

• having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.
• show that one feels superior; be patronizing.
• do something in such a way as to emphasize that one clearly regards it as below one's dignity or level of importance.

Being sent from Heaven to help people understand this, is me as a servant trying to explain; maybe as you're thinking I'm just here debating, and not trying to see if it is possible to turn it around before the Tribulation.

Sorry for mentioning my own credentials if that has made you feel inferior; yet that isn't condescending.

when only you can see it

This is completely missing the point, and making it all personal....

The Biblical text can be explained, and it isn't my way, it is what it expressed, and if i have a flaw show it, i want to understand all of what has been specified.

Somehow, many, many people have never seen things the way you do

This isn't true, many people are aware of individual specifications....

Christians accept Isaiah 53, Zechariah 11, they've just not done all the additional summaries of where all the additional lines add up; which is why i used the shoelaces metaphor.

Yet my life long goal in coming to this world, is to try and explain how the prophecy fits together; to see if it is possible, before many are removed from reality, and you think I'm being horrible.

And refusing to study the resources I named which would have answered your questions.

At some point i will get around to looking at them; yet currently a summary of what you were thinking based on Isaiah 11:6 would have been the righteous thing to do, and prove you're heading in the right direction as a servant of the Most High.

Telling me to read a vast array of text, which you've studied, and not give any answer to make me inferior, is the definition of condescending.

 

[Iti oj]

I'll be frank with you for just a second:
I don't think anyone except for you cares about your experiences or NDE's.

And I don't mean that in a bad way!
I just mean that you and your experiences are worthless to Jews.

Don't take that the wrong way!
Its just that we don't really care.
No really. We don't.

Or atheist

 

[rosends]

Not in the slightest, authority really doesn't bother me, and unfortunately claiming because you speak a language, makes you more knowledgeable on the things of God is just delusional.

Fascinatingly arrogant and incorrect. Text studied without understanding of the language in which text is written allows for errors of translation. Thinking you have a private message and were sent by God makes you delusional.

Yet personally I'd investigate any claim; instead of just dismissing everything as a waste of time.

Except that when I provided sources, you refused to study them and now say that I should just be listing everything which I have studied instead of providing the citations for you to investigate. I also notice that you have repeatedly not answered the variety of points made about the language based mistakes. By avoiding that you have absolved yourself of any responsibility of rethinking the conclusions you draw based on your errors.

Again just like happened to the prophets... Unfortunately there is no university yet, to get a recognized qualification on the things of God...

So you claim you are a prophet. At least now we have a clear issue to discuss. Judaism teaches that you aren't a prophet. Therefore, all of your claims fail on their face. See how easy that was? If you want to reject Judaism then that's fine. Let's just make that clear. You reject it without studying it because it makes a clear statement which conflicts with your claim of authority. As to the "university" concern -- there are plenty of places where you can get qualifications about things of God. Unless you believe that in order to be qualified about God, one must have had an NDE and be given a personal message and no one else truly understands.

See i knew you didn't understand what condescending meant:

• having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.
• show that one feels superior; be patronizing.
• do something in such a way as to emphasize that one clearly regards it as below one's dignity or level of importance.

Yes, this describes your attitude perfectly. Only you can understand and you speak down to others who don't see the "simple picture messages". Denigrating other points as "stupid methodology" instead of deigning to consider them and their application -- a dismissive condescension. Refusal to consider points presented and instead, claiming the entire approach to be tainted and not worth study, thus beneath you and your level? Pretty straightforward and condescending.

Being sent from Heaven to help people understand this, is me as a servant trying to explain; maybe as you're thinking I'm just here debating, and not trying to see if it is possible to turn it around before the Tribulation.

Oh, so you are superior because you were sent from heaven and your job is to go to those who aren't on your level and help them understand this, and no one can achieve this without your help. This reminds me of something...oh yeah, "having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority"

Sorry for mentioning my own credentials if that has made you feel inferior; yet that isn't condescending.

Neither is it when I point out that I know Hebrew and can understand the texts in a way you can't. Sorry about my credentials and all...

The Biblical text can be explained, and it isn't my way, it is what it expressed, and if i have a flaw show it, i want to understand all of what has been specified.

I have, repeatedly. It often hinges on your use of incorrect (or limited) translations or a lack of learning the text on any level other than the most superficial.

This isn't true, many people are aware of individual specifications...
...
Yet my life long goal in coming to this world, is to try and explain how the prophecy fits together; to see if it is possible, before many are removed from reality, and you think I'm being horrible
.

Yes, but only you see that "riddle" and how it all fits together, and anyone who doesn't learn your way will be "removed from reality."

At some point i will get around to looking at them; yet currently a summary of what you were thinking based on Isaiah 11:6 would have been the righteous thing to do, and prove you're heading in the right direction as a servant of the Most High.

A summary? I provided that -- some commentators see 11:6 as literal, some as metaphorical and each approach is tied to a variety of other textual sources. You want to know "methods" but refuse to read the range of discussion which has the methods laid out.

Telling me to read a vast array of text, which you've studied, and not give any answer to make me inferior, is the definition of condescending.

See, not giving you the "answer" is not designed to make you inferior. Your choice to feel inferior when given the tools for discussion is your own.

 

[Flankerl]

Quotemining - The Thread.

 

[wizanda]

Fascinatingly arrogant and incorrect.

Rubbish; a book recorded by someone with first hand experience, is then put into a language, the language is ambiguous, the experience was clearer.

Text studied without understanding of the language in which text is written allows for errors of translation.

Agreed, we should learn as much about every word in a language, and be aware of the many contexts that it can be applied within...

Yet if we've got no clue what is real to begin with, the language doesn't help us.

Thinking you have a private message and were sent by God makes you delusional.

I didn't say that, see how you need to make everyone sent by God delusional, which then means there is no religious text for us then to even question.

If we can move past basics, will explain which bits of information I've had revealed..

Which is Yeshua didn't say "I Am" of himself, he applied it to God. - Which when we examine in the text in Greek is quite clear; John is made up.

The other is how the prophets work, that Yeshua came to establish a snare to catch out all the fakes (Isaiah 8, Isaiah 28, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 34, etc).

I also notice that you have repeatedly not answered the variety of points made about the language based mistakes.

Because many of the points are simply pedantic; whilst missing the blatant...

So Yeshua not being a noun, answered a few times; please list any I've missed, that you feel you need to comprehend, to understand what is being said by the prophets.

Except that when I provided sources, you refused to study them

You made a statement about a specific verse, when i asked you to share what you felt about the verse, you tell me to read a few months worth of reading to understand your answer....

Yet then don't actually answer what you think about it; sorry yet that is pathetic if you really think you're going to be a priest/teacher for the Most High.

By avoiding that you have absolved yourself of any responsibility of rethinking the conclusions you draw based on your errors.

Please be specific, as so far you haven't said anything profound, that would make me need to.

So you claim you are a prophet.

I didn't claim to be a prophet; clearly your reading comprehension has issue...Was referring to those who came before.

Judaism teaches that you aren't a prophet.

Rabbis who have been cut off, and are no longer guided, then claiming things, is the reason Jews are not even aware of why the 2nd temple was destroyed or what a lot of the Tanakh refers to, as they've just been making it up.

Unless you believe that in order to be qualified about God, one must have had an NDE and be given a personal message and no one else truly understands.

This conversation was meant to be about the religious text....

The information that God presents to people is meant to be clear; which is where within the religious text it can be understood, unless people are just arrogant, and just dismiss the whole case.

Denigrating other points as "stupid methodology" instead of deigning to consider them and their application

Valid point for once, i do admit i will call a methodology illogical; yet will then normally carefully explain why it is in error, and what is the more logical way to look at it in a contextual understanding.

Refusal to consider points presented and instead, claiming the entire approach to be tainted and not worth study, thus beneath you and your level?

Having said i will read the Rabbinic literature eventually, you're just making stuff up.

I'm not the sort of person to ever not go the extra mile, i might get bored with repeating myself or a person's dismissal of everything.

"having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority"

So God is patronizing as he is in Heaven; anybody from Heaven is patronizing...You've got some weird ideas.

Sorry yet this conversation is pathetic, having to spend most of my time defending daggers; isn't my idea of an evolving spiritual discussion based on the information provided for within the Tanakh.

Neither is it when I point out that I know Hebrew and can understand the texts in a way you can't.

Openly accept that, and currently learning the alphabet; yet will take me years to get anywhere close to reading the language in color, so appreciate the skills you have, now just learn not to lord them over people, as watched you do repeatedly.

It often hinges on your use of incorrect (or limited) translations or a lack of learning the text on any level other than the most superficial.

Lets acknowledge every translation can only be as good as the knowledge of the translator....

Yet within a spiritual prophetic book, we also need someone who knows the core of what is being discussed....

Thus often when you've presented me with translations, it isn't that I've not looked at every word using Hebrew references; it is more that i find them slanted to miss out crucial information.

Yes, but only you see that "riddle" and how it all fits together, and anyone who doesn't learn your way will be "removed from reality."

The Tanakh isn't my book... The prophecies are God's doing, all I'm doing is repeating what is already there.

So if you stop talking about me, we can discuss the many verses that make this Riddle in the Bible?

You want to know "methods" but refuse to read the range of discussion which has the methods laid out.

I've not refused, I'm busy replying to you, got a life to live as well... It will take ages to find the specific data within all that...

Plus there is no way to then see your interpretation of what they've stated, their opinions are not yours.

It was your statement, if you're incapable of having a Biblical discussion without needing to talk about me all the time, will just give up on you for a bit.

 

[rosends]

Rubbish; a book recorded by someone with first hand experience, is then put into a language, the language is ambiguous, the experience was clearer.

If the language is inspired then it is not rubbish -- it is the chosen words of the divine. Dismissing it is ridiculous. Also, only valid experiences have value. Claiming a fictitious first hand experience to be valid doesn't make it so.

Agreed, we should learn as much about every word in a language, and be aware of the many contexts that it can be applied within...

So when you choose to work in translations and are corrected in the Hebrew, you should accept the corrections and change your conclusions.

I didn't say that, see how you need to make everyone sent by God delusional,

I don't make everyone sent by God delusional. I make everyone NOT sent by God but who claims to be sent by God delusional. Right now, that list is you.

The other is how the prophets work, that Yeshua came to establish a snare to catch out all the fakes (Isaiah 8, Isaiah 28, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 34, etc).

Except that those texts make no mention of Jesus -- you read him in and then decide what the texts do based on that need to find Jesus there.

Because many of the points are simply pedantic; whilst missing the blatant...

If you think a discussion of accuracy regarding words is pedantic and therefore worth ignoring, then so be it.

So Yeshua not being a noun, answered a few times; please list any I've missed, that you feel you need to comprehend, to understand what is being said by the prophets.

More than not being a noun, it isn't even the right name, and the conclusions drawn from the right name and its relationship to a noun are ridiculous. You also ignored the problem with the "My messiah" claim based on the Hebrew.

You made a statement about a specific verse, when i asked you to share what you felt about the verse, you tell me to read a few months worth of reading to understand your answer....

No, you asked for the method. I summarized the content but referred you to the source to study the method.

Yet then don't actually answer what you think about it; sorry yet that is pathetic if you really think you're going to be a priest/teacher for the Most High.

What I think about it? Why does that matter? And I already AM a teacher.

I didn't claim to be a prophet; clearly your reading comprehension has issue...Was referring to those who came before.

So your claim of "Being sent from Heaven to help people understand this," and having a message about the meaning of the riddle which was revealed to you through 1st hand experience doesn't fit the role fo the prophet. Got it.

Rabbis who have been cut off, and are no longer guided, then claiming things, is the reason Jews are not even aware of why the 2nd temple was destroyed or what a lot of the Tanakh refers to, as they've just been making it up.

This is another baseless (and condescending) claim. No one understands besides you and anything that claims otherwise is made up.

The information that God presents to people is meant to be clear; which is where within the religious text it can be understood, unless people are just arrogant, and just dismiss the whole case.

Exactly. Which is why claiming that there is a riddle that you alone can explain is "just arrogant."

i do admit i will call a methodology illogical; yet will then normally carefully explain why it is in error, and what is the more logical way to look at it in a contextual understanding.

All without studying it. Got it.

Having said i will read the Rabbinic literature eventually, you're just making stuff up.

I'm not the sort of person to ever not go the extra mile, i might get bored with repeating myself or a person's dismissal of everything.

So when you said
"If the result of Rabbinic literature is the terrible manners presented, don't see the point in studying it, other than to explain where they've gone wrong." you weren't dismissing it as an object of study and research so you could consider all methodologies, even though your only purpose would be to explain how it is wrong? You would go into studying it already convinced it is wrong? Way to go the extra mile.

So God is patronizing as he is in Heaven; anybody from Heaven is patronizing...You've got some weird ideas.

Not as weird as yours claiming to be from heaven with a first hand experience and information from God directly.

Sorry yet this conversation is pathetic, having to spend most of my time defending daggers; isn't my idea of an evolving spiritual discussion based on the information provided for within the Tanakh.

So drop this conversation, but realize that when you make errors about the tanach, I might be there to point them out. Again.

Openly accept that, and currently learning the alphabet; yet will take me years to get anywhere close to reading the language in color, so appreciate the skills you have, now just learn not to lord them over people, as watched you do repeatedly.

Using them to point out errors isn't lording them, it is applying them. If you don't want to be corrected, stop being wrong.

Lets acknowledge every translation can only be as good as the knowledge of the translator....

Yet within a spiritual prophetic book, we also need someone who knows the core of what is being discussed....

Thus often when you've presented me with translations, it isn't that I've not looked at every word using Hebrew references; it is more that i find them slanted to miss out crucial information.

You mean information that you think is crucial. Forget their years of study in more than just the one text, and their insight and knowledge of the spiritual core -- you know better. Like that isn't arrogant or anything...

The Tanakh isn't my book... The prophecies are God's doing, all I'm doing is repeating what is already there.

I didn't claim it was your book. You are repeating what you think is there based on limited study. When I give you other resources you start with the a priori position that they are wrong.

So if you stop talking about me, we can discuss the many verses that make this Riddle in the Bible?

The only riddle here is the one you think exists because of what you are trying to find. There is no riddle here.

 

[wizanda]

So when you choose to work in translations and are corrected in the Hebrew, you should accept the corrections and change your conclusions.

Because of accepting a correction in language on one specific word, doesn't dismiss a massive case within the Tanakh.

If the language is inspired then it is not rubbish -- it is the chosen words of the divine.

Language on its own is ambiguous, thus there are many interpretations.

You would go into studying it already convinced it is wrong?

Based on the numerous other prophecies being precisely fulfilled; when Zechariah 11:15-17 refers to the worthless shepherds, this is the Pharisaic offshoot, that don't teach Salvation anymore, as it was removed from them.

Yet personally, I'd read it unbiasedly to begin, always do... Read lots of religious texts globally, and to begin will just listen, and see how conscious they are.

Except that those texts make no mention of Jesus -- you read him in and then decide what the texts do based on that need to find Jesus there.

Can show a clear case within much of the Prophets, making a tapestry of 70% of it....

Can build it with or without Yeshua; yet when you add Yeshua, you get what the name implies, it is textnically brilliant.

Started to write it from what texts i just posted in a line, explaining lots of the prophecy, and then just sobbed, as no one is interested.

I'm not sent to say anything really, just here seeing if even someone as naive as me, can see what is within the text clearly.

Then according to what i know the Tribulation, then Day of the Lord shall happen regardless...

It is just disappointing, when you say you're a teacher...How can you not be fascinated in the different perspectives each person has on the text?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Clearly, Jews don't have a god. They are all atheists.

 

[rosends]

Because of accepting a correction in language on one specific word, doesn't dismiss a massive case within the Tanakh.

There is no massive case. There is your interpretation built on mistakes in Hebrew.

Based on the numerous other prophecies being precisely fulfilled; when Zechariah 11:15-17 refers to the worthless shepherds, this is the Pharisaic offshoot, that don't teach Salvation anymore, as it was removed from them.

You see, this is just plain wrong. You can insist that it is right all you want based on whatever insight you think you have, and I will insist with the same force that it is wrong -- it has been explained with most of the words cross indexed and connected to other prophecies and the entire story context connected to specific events. Trying to insist that it refers to something else entirely is unnecessary.

Yet personally, I'd read it unbiasedly to begin, always do... Read lots of religious texts globally, and to begin will just listen, and see how conscious they are.

But you said you would only read it to explain how it is wrong.

Can build it with or without Yeshua; yet when you add Yeshua, you get what the name implies, it is textnically brilliant.

When you add chocolate it becomes delicious. You can't just add something in because you infer something, especially when the inference is based on a grammatical error and a logical flaw.

Then according to what i know the Tribulation, then Day of the Lord shall happen regardless...

Preach!

It is just disappointing, when you say you're a teacher...How can you not be fascinated in the different perspectives each person has on the text?

My students ask "does spelling count?" and I say, "yes; we have dictionaries for this." Not "I'm interested in variant spellings you make up because you like them."

 

[wizanda]

Preach!

That was a part of appealing as a human being who's heart is broken by knowing these things, told directly and not from books, to please have the decency to listen to the text, which I've spent years questioning to be able to share.

You also ignored the problem with the "My messiah" claim based on the Hebrew.

Sorry, because as saying it was my translation, anyone trusting me alone as a Hebrew translator would be silly.

You can't just add something in because you infer something, especially when the inference is based on a grammatical error and a logical flaw.

The usage of Yeshua is a minor point in comparison to the rest of the case... Which you've got no clue about, and currently can't even explain to you, as you're not looking to understand.

 

[rosends]

Sorry, because as saying it was my translation, anyone trusting me alone as a Hebrew translator would be silly.

But if any part of your understanding is predicated on this "my messiah" concept, and it is incorrect as per the text and people who actually know Hebrew, why haven't you abandoned that aspect of your belief?

 

[wizanda]

But if any part of your understanding is predicated on this "my messiah" concept, and it is incorrect as per the text and people who actually know Hebrew, why haven't you abandoned that aspect of your belief?

Martin Hengel translates: "I have anointed his appearance beyond that of any (other) man, and his form beyond that of the sons of humanity [the human]".

It really doesn't make a big deal to the case, the word is anointed in someway; this is most likely where the 1st century Messianic understanding of Isaiah 53 came from.

This was a very minor detail of questioning, there isn't specification of 'the Messiah' as believed within Rabbinic thinking specified within the Tanakh, and almost agreed until found that reference.

Yet if we dissected the rest of the text, it would be clear why it is quite specific, with multiple references across the book.