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Featured Do the Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God....?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Spirit_Warrior, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. J2hapydna

    J2hapydna Active Member

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    Please read Quran 5:48. There are different ways to worship the same deity because there are different nations with different languages cultures and histories. So they have different ways of expressing love worship and devotion.
     
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I am not a Muslim, Christian, or Jew; so, my reasons are not biased.

    You have to go through jesus christ if you believe in the same god jesus does. Since jesus defines the father, to christians, whatever definition you have in the Quran that doesn't match scripture is not of the same god christians believe.

    I don't know much about Judaism only that it's not Islam whatsoever.

    Reading the Quran would only give me Muhammad's point of view. Looking at all three religions, you guys are not the same. If your traditions and practices are embedded in your beliefs, then you have to give me some evidence that you don't need to go through christ to get to god as a Muslim and you have to at least give me reason to believe you have any relations to the Jews to understand god from their perspective not your own.

    It's not about you.
     
  3. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I do because what is at question is the Jewish definition of idolatry.
    and plenty of Muslim Christians.
     
  4. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Why would Rebecca have been Jewish if the laws of descent weren't codified and given to the nation until the time of Moses?
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    And Christians that converted to Judaism and Jews that converted to Christianity and Muslims that converted to Judaism. I don't know why people bring this up almost. I think its common knowledge that there are people that convert to other religions.
     
  6. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    It is as if pointing it out lends validity to something -- but when a parallel case is pointed out, that one somehow isn't allowed to be used to support a parallel contention.
     
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  7. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Do the Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God....?

    Definitely and absolutely - NOT.
    Why would the Creator have different plans and different messages to different groups of people? God has only one message not several confusing messages.

    1 Corinthians 14:33 New International Version (NIV)

    For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
     
  8. Kirran

    Kirran
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    So presumably the Presbyterians and Continental Reformed churches worship different gods also?
     
  9. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    They could worship God but would God accept their worship?
    Matthew 15:9 New International Version (NIV)

    They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’”

    Where can I find the word Presbyterian in the bible or Continental Reformed church? Sure they can worship but the truth is they are separated from Christ.

    Ephesians 2:12 New International Version (NIV)

    remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

    no hope.jpg
     
  10. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Are you familiar with RF's rules regarding proselytising?
     
  11. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    There was no tribes when God chose Sarah and Isaac. Just as when Abram met Melchizedek and gave God an offering.
    Melchizedek like Christ is a priest forever. Before the tribes existed the promise of God to Abraham and the child of Gods covenant through the chosen Son Isaac and the chosen Son Jesus Christ was before all tribes came into existence or before any laws were in place. So the chosen line of Isaac and the mother Sarah is a covenant before any tribes of Israel or any law.
    And as we see a priest of the most high God already existed.

    You also miss the fact that Adam was a Son of God. created from the WORD of God. And the second Adam who is Jesus Christ was born by the word of God both having ONLY God as their Father being created by the power of Gods words and the power of the power of Holy Ghost coming upon Mary. The Promises to Abraham came before all tribes and other covenants.
    So to be a born a Jew you had to be born of a Jewess today. When you see Ruth the mother of Obed who was a son of Boaz and Ruth, the father of Jesse, and the grandfather of David.Ruth was a Moabite married to Mahlon so married into a Hebrew family. David is King David. We know Joseph was a descendant of King David. So I am not sure where you get your information from. But Christ is more qualified than anyone as a Son of God and a direct descendant of King David, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    The promises to Abraham were before the Sons of Jacob and the Law. The promises being fulfilled today rely on the promises God made to Abraham. Promises which include he Gentiles as the Prophets foretold.

    Jews do not accept any Prophets born outside their own people. In that I mean that the teachings of Moses show that the Messiah will be raised up from among their own people the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Since they were before the law and the twelve tribes the promises of God have to be seen in the faith of the Father Abraham.
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    This simply is not true.

    "Presbyterian" means "elder", which eventually got translated into different words depending on the language. For example, "Father ___", as used in the CC, comes from that Greek word-- not the word "Abba" as found in Hebrew.

    Secondly, exactly how do you know that people in various congregations are "separated from Christ"? And why is it that Jesus said "... judge ye not...", and yet so many here, mostly Protestants, are so willing to judge others? Paul said he wasn't even willing to judge himself, and yet some here feel free to play "God" themselves and judge others.
     
  13. J2hapydna

    J2hapydna Active Member

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    You seem to be confusing peace with some megalomaniac's vision of order. Please read Quran 5:28. We are from different nations with different experiences languages and customs in a race to do good
     
  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Bil'am.
     
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  15. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    If by initially you mean before the kingdom split. And by Jew you meant Judean.

    13, but let's say 12.

    This was only true before the Torah was given. After were received the Torah, our rule became that Israelite status was passed through the mother, but tribal identity was passed through the father. One could no longer become an Israelite through patrilineal descent as evidenced by Ezra 10:3. There it says that everyone who "fears the commandments of G-d" are told to send their non-Israelite wives and children. Had we still followed patrilineal descent those children would be Israelites and not required to have been sent out.

    After having received the covenant that the Torah, it also became possible to to come under the Mosaic covenant and become an Israelite through conversion as well. Then one would become a "ger" - one who converted to the Israelite religion, having the same status as any other Israelite.

    The area of land under control by the Judean Kingdom was called "Yehudah (Judea)" (even though it included more than just the tribe of Judah's portion). The language they spoke was called "Judean". And the people were called Judeans. See Jeremiah 52:27 and onwards and Esther 2:5-6.

    Way back in 2 Kings 18:26, 28 the language spoken in the kingdom of Judea, Judean. They lived in a land called Judea. They spoke a language called Judean. And later we find the people being called Judeans. You see the trend?

    The concept of a convert is already discussed in the Torah. There are two types of "ger" mentioned in the Torah. Colloquially we call them "ger tzedek" - the convert and "ger toshav" - the one who is permitted to live among the Israelites in Israel.

    This is readily identifiable by two otherwise contradictory verses:
    "For the congregation, there is one statute for you and for the ger who dwells; a statute for generations. As it is for you, so shall it be for the ger before G-d. One teaching (lit.Torah) and one judgment shall be for you and for the ger with you."
    - Num. 15:15, 16

    "Do not eat any carrion. To the ger that is in your gates give it to eat or sell it to a stranger. Because you are a holy nation to G-d."
    - Deut. 14:21

    As you can see the first verse says that the "ger" and the Israelite would have the same Law. But the second verse says that the Israelite and "ger" would have a different Law (ie. one can eat carrion and one can't). The first verse is talking about a convert: he is no different than a Jew. The second is talking about a non-Jew who is permitted to dwell in Israel (in your gates - as opposed to his own gates). This is as opposed to another verse that states:

    "They shall not dwell in your land, lest they cause you to sin to Me. Because you will serve their gods and it will be a trap for you."
    - Ex. 23:33

    This verse provides the prohibition for Jews to allow non-Jews to remain in Israel along with the way to get around this prohibition: if they are not serving idols, but the Israelite G-d. Then they gain the status described in Deut. 14:21 called a ger toshav and they may remain in the land and we are even commanded to support them. The present incarnation is called Noahide. However they are still not considered Jewish as they are permitted to eat carrion - unlike the group mentioned in Num 15:16 who has to follow the same Torah Law as any other Jew, because they are converts.

    Nope.
     
  16. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    No one said false prophets do not exist... Some people just cannot making an Animal of themselves. :)
    I guess the animal name cannot be used for some reason even in it's correct use,

    I guess you understand we are talking about the Jews today aren't you.
    Ba'al is mentioned in the bible but it does not make him a real god.
     
  17. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Your quote was that Jews "do not accept any Prophets born outside their own people." But Jews accept that Bil'am was a prophet born outside of Judaism. No one said he was a god.
     
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  18. J2hapydna

    J2hapydna Active Member

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    That is okay with me. As long as we agree that before Judaism, there were 12 patrilineal tribes of Israel and Membership to these tribes was patrilineal. Also, after the religion was created, the priesthood remained with patrilineal descendants of Levi. Also, the post of king was restricted to a patrilineal descendant from the tribe of Judah, specifically Solomon etc
     
  19. SethZaddik

    SethZaddik Active Member

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    Different religions have different traditions but scholars of all three, really any moderately educated persons, universally agree including the Catholic Church and Judaism, which all Muslims know.

    You don't get to decide based on erroneous notions that three religions who are in agreement that they have the same God actually don't.

    It is wishful thinking on your part and I can only guess your motives but you are factually incorrect.

    They have the same God in Arabic Christianity, Allah, as in Islam, also Allah.

    Which is the same God as the Biblical El, AL(the)Ilah(deity/God)=the God.

    El is the Hebrew form of Ilah, both Semitic languages and your argument is total nonsense.

    Probably you don't WANT it to be true but a five minute Google search will easily prove you wrong. Unless you go to a website that is not religously tolerant but they will be lying if they say otherwise.

    Does Abraham have the same God as Moses and Jesus PBUT?

    Absolutely. And since Islam is the third of the ABRAHAMIC religions you obviously are no scholar or anything close.

    You have your opinion, but the facts disprove your opinion.
     
  20. SethZaddik

    SethZaddik Active Member

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    Do you think it effects God that three religions that worship Him, and really more than that as Parsees have one God believed to be the same God from a much older religion, in slightly different ways?

    Obviously not because there are multiple religions worshipping the same God and agreeing that they do, besides the biggoted who can't grasp the simplest notion, that Abraham had One God and three traditions sprang from his God.
    I didn't know you had God's phone number to ask him if he would be OK with three religions honoring him in slightly different ways.

    Can I get those digits, I got some questions of my own?

    Humor aside your assuming even all Christians and all Jews believe the exact same thing, but they absolutely don't. Some Jews only use Tanakh others use it and Talmud and others use Zohar too.

    All Jews have the same God, different traditions and rules.

    Same with Islam, which makes your theory bunk.

    BTW, my Creator tells me all religions have the right to Heaven be they Righteous, and doesn't tell me He is the God of Abraham PBUH and Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH Mohammed PBUH without it being true.

    God doesn't lie.
     
    #300 SethZaddik, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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