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Featured Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by oldbadger, Oct 9, 2021.

  1. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    If He ate and drank with me He would have been eating with a sinner, yes.

    With St. John if I were not in the Church I am perhaps I would've thought it to be weird and not from God, but as people are living like that even now in the wilderness it's not that strange to me (people as in Saints of ours, living ones).

    I am not sure how you can say they were not His enemies when they conspired to kill Him, got false witnesses to accuse Him, and it all ended up in His murder. Then following this they murdered His brother and His followers. Then later they cast them out of their communities in persecution, handing them over to the Romans for murder as they did with Jesus. If that is not an enemy I have no idea what is.
     
  2. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Jesus was arrested after the riot and picketing in the Temple. That really happened.

    There are no accounts of Jesus being accused of banditry.
     
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  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Did you get the verse I am referring to? I cant understand what you are saying. This is very well known. They came with swords to arrest him like a bandit and this is in Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which means all three synoptics, and goes back to M. Listwn means bandit.
     
  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Me too! :D

    But whether people thought him weird or not, that did not make them enemies.

    The Priests arrested and got him condemned, for sure, but it was just people who saw him eating drinking with sinners who reported that, not enemies.
    Did they tell the truth at all? Was Jesus eating with sinners? True. Was he eating and drinking to excess....? Who cares! I don't mind that at all, but to Christians this could not be true. That's strange.

    Who did they hand over to the Romans? Paul? He went to Rome on his own wishes.
    Cephas? He lived until twenty years+ after Jesus.

    Do you think that the same folks followed him around doing nasty things, and it was they who reckoned he ate too much etc? I don't think so.
     
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  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Just copy paste your verses, like other members, and then we'll see.
    Smashing up Ana's Bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts was a pretty severe offence or two, but that really happened.... not a lie, firedragon. Go ask some Christians.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You think I go ask some alien? Lol. Mate. Learn to discuss as a decent human being and dont take people or things for granted like that.

    I gave you the chapter, I gave you the greek word, I gave you the source as M which is one source in the Synoptic problem we call Mathean, so go look at the chapter I gave you, find that verse, and check the meaning of the Greek word I gave you, and "ask some christians" like Gunkel if you want.

    Pretty simple. Just put some effort. I cant copy paste anything because at the moment I am using my phone.
     
  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Jesus really did beat up the Temple money bazaar and picket the Temple Courts, firedragon. By any definition that's naughty. No lies there.
     
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  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So? Who said "lies"?
     
  9. Dropship

    Dropship Member

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    Of course the snooty priests would say Jesus was a glutton and a drunk, so don't get suckered in by their propaganda..:)
    As for John, what problem, where?
    Sure he hung in the wilderness chilling and recharging his spiritual batteries, but sometimes went in town to yell insults at the corrupt authorities like in the bottom pic where he's in action tearing into Herod and his floozy-

    Jesus said "John is the greatest man ever to be born" (Matt 11:11)
    john-11-11.jpg

    rel-johnvHerodD.jpg
     
  10. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    The reason it matters to us and could not be true is because gluttony and drunkenness are both sins, and St. Paul speaks truth of the Lord saying "He was like us in all things but sin." Moreover it is impossible that God could do wrong so it is impossible that a Divine Person, even Incarnate, could do wrong. It would make Him false in every way as Lord and "Lamb without spot."

    And I mean just the community of those people in general as enemies, the Pharisees and those who followed them, persecuting Jesus and those who followed Him, not necessarily the same people.
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    In your first post you asked....
    According to the NT, other people called him a bandit. Do you believe he was a bandit according to the NT?
    ..... and I am answering........ No lies there that he got arrested for beating up the Temple bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts. Which part of that is difficult for you?
     
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  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I think that's where Christianity has gone so wrong, imo...... eating and drinking too much are not in themselves even criminal offences. And those people who just spoke about what they had seen about the Baptist and Jesus, they HAD to be made enemies by the church. It begins to look like manipulation to me.

    Why 'The Pharisees'? The Baptist and Jesus were both set against the corruption and greed of the Priesthood and the very wicked Temple scams which blede the working people of their hard earned money. A bit of a Progressive, I think?

    And then Apostle John confused the whole thing by making the enemies of Jesus 'The Jews'! How bad is that?
     
  13. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Huh? Who said that it was the priests who were speaking about Jesus?
    Have you read the accounts in the gospels?
    Look: Let me show you..... it was THE PEOPLE who had made these observations.
    Matthew {11:16} But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, {11:17} And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. {11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. {11:19} The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans
    and sinners.

    Luke {7:32} They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept. {7:33} For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. {7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!



    Ha ha! None at all....... what you have written explains why the people thought what they did. You've cracked it! But they were no enemies.
    {11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

    By the way, John did not go in to town to shout at Antipas. He got arrested by Antipas for causing such losses to TEmple takings and was taken to Perea Province, and it was there in prison that he spoke with Antipas and criticised his adultery.
     
  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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  15. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Says somewhere in Psalms that the Messiah's friends will only be those who love and
    obey him. There were plenty of times Jesus sat with his enemies, even washing the feet
    of one who would betray him. In one place at a meal the Pharisees were 'vehement' in
    trying to provoke him.
     
  16. Dropship

    Dropship Member

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    Of course the priests and their lackeys would badmouth JC..:)
    If he was a glutton and a drunk, he'd never have pulled big audiences at his gigs-
    "Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
    "And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
     
  17. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ever drank until He was inebriated - that practice was condemned by the prophets.

    However - drinking alcohol was not prohibited by the Law of Moses and I believe the Lord often ate and drank with His disciples and others.

    Breaking bread is one of the best ways to meet new people, grow closer to your friends and honor special occasion.
     
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  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Ah. You didnt do the simple research.
     
  19. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Now you have a nice day, firedragon. Don't overdo anything.
     
  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I acknowledge your belief about the Lord Jesus Christ, FP. :)
    I believe that Jesus didn't pay much attention to all those previous prophets, and I think he really enjoyed eating and drinking with his friends those taxmen and sinners all. If he was a winebbibber as claimed by witnesses then I personally wouldn't think any the worse of him.

    And I believe that the Baptist may well have seemed strange to folks who lived within the community..... I think that is exactly what would happen today. So I will believe what the bible says about all this. If any people want to pick and choose from the verses then that is their right.
     
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