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Featured Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by oldbadger, Oct 9, 2021.

  1. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    And they were because tempted in every way and without sin covers His whole life, you just can’t admit you’re wrong. And after reading your comments to to me and others it’s expected. :)
    “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
    ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  2. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    This is funny.

    I was just telling someone who references an entire book to prove their point is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

    It feels like serendipity. It's funny.
     
  3. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    You know - the Lord Jesus Christ often "ranted" at His enemies - and they acted like you do.

    And I totally called your "TLDR"! HAH! :p
     
  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You believe that Jesus is God, and that God cannot do anything wrong.
    I believe that all is God, and that God is so vast as to be totally unaware of this planet, let alone us. As unaware as you are of a particular cell in your liver, though it be part of you.

    And so I don't have to make Jesus perfect, he was a man and he did human things. But........ if you feel so strongly about taking plenty of food and wine, I can only hope that you object to the reception of plenty of silver and gold, and other mammon. But most Christians that I know do cherry pick the points which suit them best. Sadly.

    We don't even know who wrote that. Specialists estimate the origin of that letter to about 80-100CE, and Paul disappeared some time during Nero#s actions against Christians.

    You quote stuff from supposed authors such as Paul, who never once met with Jesus in life, and who did not write down a single decsription of anything that Jesus did (except the claims of the last 36 hours)
     
  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I don't think that you have ever read the gospels with as much care as you suggest. I think you breeze thru' much, only focusing and adjusting upon your own chosen points of interest.

    I reckon that you cannot tell us what Jesus and disciples did, once in Jerusalem and Temple on that last Palm Sunday. @ElishaElijah might help, maybe?
     
  6. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    That’s not what we were talking about, we were talking about what Scripture says about Jesus Christ. I happen to believe that All Scripture is inspired by God, is His Word, that He used men to write it. Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. So the point was does Scripture say Jesus ever sinned or not? And the answer is NO, He never sinned in speech or anything at all, He was and is perfect even though
    He walked and lived among us shared in our humanity in every way, yet without sin, amazing!
     
  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    No Elisha, that's not what I was talking about, nor this thread.
    This thread is about Jesus a Galilean Nagar, who joined with the Baptist in efforts to demonstrate against priesthood greed, corruption and crime.
     
  8. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    This is the question of the thread…
    Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

    You said Jesus sinned and can prove it by the Scriptures and you cannot. You asked to prove He was and is sinless by the Scriptures and I have. :cool:
     
  9. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Your list of verses was a sad attempt.

    I also said that Jesus was violent, and you can add that he committed criminal damage. I also suspect that picketing the Temple Courts two days running was a criminal offence.

    I accept that (probably) your idea of Jesus was that he never had a girlfriend, never got involved in any of the scams that the boatmen could have got up to....... never enjoyed his food and wine-sometimes to excess, and all those people who saw him eating-drinking with people that they hated or thought were wicked and reported that, they were enemies of God.

    And you cherry picked the bits that you needed, such as keeping company with bad people, and ditched the food and wine parts.

    Good Luck with that.
     
  10. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    And the Scriptures still declare that Jesus was tempted in every area of life and without sin. Try again tomorrow bruv. :)
    By the way, Jesus Christ is engaged to be married and the wedding is coming.
     
  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    It matters, so its something to consider. Do we have the right idea about Jesus? He tells a parable praising a clever man for deceiving and stealing from his manager. (Luke 16) Isn't that a little strange to find in the story of someone we think of as a teetotaler? This is a parable, but still it shows Jesus recognizes that humans sometimes are so sacrosanct that we do evil for the sake of keeping our undies clean. It has personal implications. Are there absolutely no conditions under which I should lie? What if it is to save a life? Have I sinned then? The point I gather from this is that we are sinful creatures, so every moment of every day our existence is a compromise. All we can do is make the best compromise.

    So to me it stands to reason that in pursuit of doing some good Jesus may have found it wise to get a little drunk. We may not understand the situation. We may not understand the value of drugs, but that doesn't mean we are in a position to judge.
     
  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    But I don't trust all the scriptures, Elisha.
    If you believe that the scriptures are perfectly correct, without any contradictions, fictions or imperfections, guided by the hand of your god, then you're going to find the idea that Jesus enjoyed his food and wine to excess to be wrong, I guess. But somehow you do believe all those nasty people who claimed that they saw him at table with wicked friends.

    I feel comfortable with the claims of people that Jesus sat with folks that those people didn't like, and enjoyed his grub and drink, sometimes to excess. I don't think any the less of him for that. I just read the gospels and do my best to figure out what happened.


    Jolly good.
     
  13. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You can believe whatever you want to and that’s not the point… When you say the Scriptures say such and such, there is only ONE correct interpretation. The Bible doesn’t say that Jesus Christ got drunk or inebriated as you have previously said. He came to seek and save the lost so why would anyone have any issue with Him enjoying wine and food with people no matter who they were? Nothing wrong with drinking wine, but drunkenness is a sin and unwise. The Scriptures say Jesus was tempted in every way, yet without sin, so that means He never was drunk or inebriated. :cool:

    “Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.”
    ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:1‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    “But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    “Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
    ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14-15‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    “And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” He went out again beside the sea, and all the crowd was coming to him, and he was teaching them. And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him. And as he reclined at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners were reclining with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.””
    ‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:8-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    So Jesus just finished healing and forgiving a paralytic of his sins, calls Levi, eats a meal and you take this to mean He got inebriated.:confused:
     
    #193 ElishaElijah, Nov 28, 2021 at 6:33 AM
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021 at 7:26 AM
  14. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    I believe I have thoroughly demonstrated that I know what I am talking and that you don't.
     
  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Stop you right there, Elisha.
    Do you have a particular denomination or Church? I ask because there are so many differing denominations, churches, interpretations of scriptures, and that's within Christianity.

    Every sentence you write seems to be cranked, maybe because there is some megalomania that insists only your interpretation could ever be right.
    Islam interprets the scriptures differently.
    Judaism interprets the scriptures differently.
    Christianity (within itself) interprets the scriptures differently.
    And Historical Jesus researchers interpret the scriptures individually.
    Cornish Oral Tradition interprets the scriptures differently (in outcome)
    Kashmir Oral Tradition interprets the scriptures differently (in outcome).
    ...and on......

    Every sentence you write..........
     
  16. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I knew that you couldn't answer that most simple of questions.
    Anybody who has ever read through the gospels with care will know about these details.
    I often ask that question to folks who think they know the gospels...... and they never ever can answer.

    So why don't you read through G-Mark to discover what Jesus and disciples did, once in Jerusalem (and Temple) on that last Palm Sunday? You'll learn something..... and realise how you've never really taken in everything......... easy
     
  17. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    People can interpret Scripture however they want to but that won’t mean it is correct and what the author was communicating. Biblical Hermeneutics are the principals used to determine what the writer was actually trying to communicate. So it doesn’t matter what denomination a person is but the writer of Scriptures was communicating a message with one meaning, by applying certain principles you can determine what they meant by what they wrote.
    https://austinbiblechurch.com/sites...asic Overview of Hermeneutical Principles.pdf
     
  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    This would be a good example of how someone could interpret or miss interpret Scripture…
    I have no idea what you mean by the word “cranked”. Now I could assume I know and place my own meaning to the word or I could ask you and get the proper interpretation and meaning. What would happen if you had died and this was 100 years ago when written, you meant something but in order to find out what you meant how would a person find out? Your meaning to the word cranked had one meaning, did it not?
     
  19. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yeah....... I thought so.
    You do think that you are the only ones who are right.......
    And your 'Hermeneutics are the principals used....' is great fun. ....as if you could tell us all what principals those might be.??? ......waiting on that.

    Four gospels were chosen for inclusion in the New Testament. One gospel written both for one and by another witness. Two gospels are compilations of other documents and oral tradition, and one gospel written by author/s who had a useful collection of accounts, stories and anecdotes but not the fist clue about what happened, when, and over what timespan.

    All the bits you like are (hermeneutically) 'true', and all the bits you don't like are obviously wicked lies from enemies of the cross, or whatever. :p
     
  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Figures........
    I don't think you have much idea about the gospels, either.

    I wait to discover what 'principals' are used to determine what gospel authors were trying to communicate. Most interesting. I just thought that the gospels were statements or depositions about what Jesus said and did. Statements can be true or false.....and the motives of an author, these can be anything.

    Why don't you just read the gospels and look at any other evidence which is available? I have read a priest's writings from a bible church in Austin, Texas. I wonder if he preaches at Austin bible church?
     
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