Do the Gods Intevene?

[Sunstone]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[Lyndon]

I suggest you start praying and find out, and be sincere about it!!

 

[Terese]

Yeah! Not with that attitude you won't!
(sorry for spamming)

 

[Erebus]

My deities embody both natural forces and human concepts. I see Thor in a lightning storm, Thoth in universities and Ares in battlefields for example.

Taking this view, you can't really go through any given day without witnessing the intervention of one or more gods, regardless of your species. Evidence becomes a bit of an oddity in this regard since only a solipsist would deny the existence of my gods. It's far more pertinent to ask whether or not a person feels that they can be described as deities in the first place. That's something that I personally view as being entirely down to individual preference.

Can this intervention be considered miraculous? Certainly. Again though, it depends on perspective. For some, childbirth is miraculous whereas for others, a miracle must be something that by definition can't ever actually happen. I personally tend to favour a loose view on miracles as being something extremely fortuitous.

Next, there's the question of whether or not the gods are sentient in some capacity. To that, I have to say, "Maybe? I don't know." If the mish-mash of cells, water and bacteria that constitute our body can produce consciousness, it really doesn't seem overly fantastical that similar principles could apply on a more cosmic scale. That said, it's something that I feel is another personal matter, this time because I really don't know and don't see how I could even attempt to prove it to myself, let alone anybody else.

Finally, we have prayers and supplications. Let's ignore for now the thanks-giving variety of prayers, since that's not what I suspect this thread is interested in. The long and short of it is that you can ask gods for things and it can have an impact on your life. I very much doubt that reality would rearrange itself to give you a parking space when one isn't available mind you. No, I view prayer as working much like magic does, it's all about the mind. We tend to call it placebo nowadays. A prayer for strength can help you get through something in much the same way as an athlete will perform better while wearing their lucky socks.

Again, I'm agnostic about a "supernatural" component to this. What I described is what can be proven to actually work. Establishing cause and effect on (to use an example from another thread) the curse of the film Poltergeist seems like an impossible task to me.

 

[bobhikes]

If there is a god that intervenes death is meaningless. I've always argued if there is an afterlife leaving this one in a short period is a bonus.

 

[Sunstone]

I suggest you start praying and find out, and be sincere about it!!

I'll keep your "wisdom" in mind next time I need a parking space in front of a donuts shop.

 

[Lyndon]

God has so much more to offer you than parking spots!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

Whilst I can stretch my mind to imagine life with a real God, I can't also manufacture the evidence without it being manufactured. So assuming you don't want me to just make up a story about the day Aphrodite fell in love with me, I'm gonna roll with no.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

Slightly more seriously, I don't understand why they would invent natural laws, only to occasionally break them, based on convenience, whilst simultaneously most often leave us at their mercy. That seems capricious.
I've never really had anyone explain to me why a God would intervene in such a manner.
Mind you, I've always like the old Classical Gods, and they clearly have their reasons for intervening. Zeus in particular, the old poon-hound.

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

The closer a given God is to omnipotence and omniscience the less credible that appears to me.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

Evidence is hard to acquire in terms of human interaction, so adding the additional barrier of 'non-human' makes it even less likely to be the case.

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

I think anyone who worships a being concerned with whether a parking spot is available for him or not is an certifiable idiot.
Still, let's hear it for compartmentalism, serving humanity faithfully since before Moses was a boy.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

God has so much more to offer you than parking spots!!

It strikes me as bizarre (and you also, I would imagine!) that someone would reduce their God in such a manner.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'll keep your "wisdom" in mind next time I need a parking space in front of a donuts shop.

Skip the parking spot, and start asking for levitation...

 

[Sha'irullah]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

I say none. It is near impossible to tell unless it is something dramatic like telekinesis.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

All things are natural in my opinion and I see no need to think otherwise

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

Nope. Either man assigns gods to natural forces or man assigns natural forces to gods.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

Sounds like a great way to test miracles if you ask me!

 

[George-ananda]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

IMO. Miracles do occur under the influence of gods.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

Not so much suspension but application of powers not understood to science.

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

Yes.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

I think there is conclusive evidence in my opinion that miracles have occurred. Certainly one can remain skeptical of every claim.

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

Certainly. God knows he needs a good sugar buzz to thrash all those commie-atheists out there.

 

[PureX]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

Let's say I pray to "God" for patience, clarity, and perseverance in the face of some current difficulty. The act of my praying causes me to slow my mind down, and to focus on articulating my current problem, and my current needs; calmly and realistically. And in so doing I actually become more patient, more clear-minded, and more effectively determined to face my difficulties in a methodical and reasoned way. My prayer request has been fulfilled by the very act of my asking.

"God" is first and foremost an ideal that exists in our minds. And it's an ideal that we can trust to help us if we use it appropriately. The "evidence" for this truth is in the doing. Faith is an activity that we engage in, not just some hopeful intellectual pretense. And when engaged in appropriately, it can be a very powerful and effective tool. It can change our lives, and change who we are and who we are becoming. It may not be 'magic' but it can certainly be 'miraculous'.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

I suppose a Christian would say yes, god intervenes in human affairs, after all the bible is the story of god constantly intervening. Religious people would also point to miracles, reported in the bible, and reported in the media from time to time of natural laws being suspended. That is the "evidence" which I would say in a world full of competing claims about supernatural activity is very poor evidence. None of it can be tested or repeated in "laboratory conditions" (rather conveniently), it is just people claiming stuff, linking together disparate facts, disparate events and creating "evidence", conspiracy theory style.

If there is a deity or deities, I have to say they are a little erratic with their "interventions". Species become extinct, ice ages come and go, all sorts of plagues, natural disasters, accidental deaths afflict humanity while the gods sit on their hands, watching. Do they spend a lot of time sleeping?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My Goddess makes Herself known to the devotee when the devotee is ready. She's not an easy Goddess to love and Her Path is very difficult and intense. She's more of a guide leading Her children back to Herself. This involves a lot of purification. It's a form of training and self-mastery. You may pray to Her to ask for spiritual guidance but She will only give you what you need, not necessarily what you want or think you want.

I don't believe in miracles. I find the concept silly and stupid.

 

[Jainarayan]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

No verifiable evidence, it's all subjective imo. I tell a story about the time Hurricane Sandy blew down part of my fence. It's one of those 6' high, 8' wide wooden slat fences, and heavy as heavy gets. I had recently had shoulder surgery, with my arm still in a sling. Not only was the section of fence on the ground, my backyard slopes down, with the fence on the downhill side. I decided to try to lift it and flip it with one hand. I did it, but I actually felt like it was being pushed by someone or something behind and to the side of me. Hanuman and/or Thor? Maybe, I did call Hanuman's name under my breath. I can't prove it but I believe it.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

Like the sun moving backwards? Gods, there are days I wish it would so I had more time... like on weekends. But I haven't experienced anything of that nature.

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

I think so. I don't believe the gods sit around waiting for something to do, or spend their time micromanaging us. I think we have to almost scream at them to get their attention. Or as in the story of Gajendra and Vishnu. Gajendra was an elephant whose foot and leg were seized by a crocodile. For a thousand years Gajendra struggled to free himself, thinking he could use his own strength to free himself, but to no avail. Finally in desperation he called out to Lord Vishnu, and offered a single lotus flower he plucked from the water. Instantly Vishnu came to Gajendra's aid to free him. The moral (well, one of them) is that sometimes we only have to say to the gods "OK, I need your help, I'm not strong enough". Maybe that's what happened with the fence incident. I simply asked for help when I got to the sticking point in the lift.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

Conclusive evidence? Not conclusive, just subjective.

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

No, that's making a mockery of the deity and considering it nothing more than a vending machine for petty favors.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

[Is] there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs?

In legends and sagas, Óðinn often instigates wars between kings and nations. But there's no evidence or proof for it, no.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

Couldn't say--I've never had a miracle happen to me before. However no, the gods are as bound to the Prav' (Natural Law) as we are.

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

I believe that prayers can call to the gods, but it's up to them if they appear and take action. I don't believe them to take intervention into our affairs, however, but for things out of our control such as the weather.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

No evidence, just believe. For example, it is believed that herds of animals are guided through the forests by the Леший, or even that Óðinn is the Raven God.

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation?

Hell no, and that's Mike [REDACTED] Pence just being a moron.

 

[K.M.R.]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

1. I don't believe that God as I know Him would ever show much quantifiable proof of his existence for anyone except the person that he is intervening for. It would remove the choice for them to believe. After all, if they know for a fact that he exists, they can't exactly choose whether not to believe in him or not - and I believe choice and freedom is the most important thing to him.

2. I do believe that some might be miraculous, but I think most would not be. Even the miraculous ones might have some explanation that would make it so they were no longer miraculous if we understood everything at play. Since we don't, they seem miraculous to us.

3 I believe that God would interfere according to a prayer in order to help that person to understand Him and His purposes better, but there would also be times that the one praying wouldn't have their prayer answered because it wouldn't do them any good.

4. It's possible. I wouldn't really know on this one.

Bonus: I think that if it were really important, and it would help the man praying to believe, God would open up a parking spot. I also believe that if there were a person praying to be delivered from starvation and it would serve them good, God would find a way for them to be fed and to live happily. At the same time though, I think that some spirits need to suffer that in order to help them. Some of the kindest, most generous, and most empathetic people are starving to death, or suffering in other ways. And if you think about it, death isn't such a horrible thing to God. In fact, it's a good thing. It means that you're one step closer to living with him again.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that deity exists. If so, is there any conclusive evidence that the gods intervene in human affairs? If so, what is that evidence?

I believe, at best, probabilities are "massaged", but the actual things are either going to happen or not.

If so, are their interventions ever miraculous? That is, do they involve a suspension of natural law(s)?

No. Funny how Jesus can make a paralyzed man walk (in the nursing rehab biz, he probably had "disuse myopathy" or "if you don't use it, ya lose it") but not heal John the Baptist.

If the gods intervene in human affairs, then does human behavior, such as praying, ever influence them to intervene?

If they are persons, with their own wants and needs, then whether they answer is up to them, no?

Not even vending machines give you what you want 100% of the time.

Is there any conclusive evidence the gods intervene in non-human affairs? And if so, are those interventions ever miraculous?

Don't see why not. Why would God of Planet Earth only fixate on one species?

BONUS QUESTION: A certain vice-president of Focus on the Family believed that his god would intervene (in response to prayer) in order to open up a parking place for him at a donut shop on Monday mornings. Do you find it plausible that a deity would do such a thing while -- at the same time -- allowing thousands of children worldwide to die every minute from starvation? If so, why? If not, why not?

PMS?

So assuming you don't want me to just make up a story about the day Aphrodite fell in love with me, I'm gonna roll with no.

Yeah, but that'd probably be a real trip, though.

Skip the parking spot, and start asking for levitation...

With teleportation they could save on their gas bill.

I suppose a Christian would say yes, god intervenes in human affairs, after all the bible is the story of god constantly intervening.

Only if you're relevant to the plot, though.