Howard Is
Lucky Mud
American citizens who joined the war against fascism in Spain were classified as ‘premature anti-fascists’ by the OSS (precursor to the CIA).
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Do the Axis Powers Have a Moral Obligation to Attack the US?
- Thread starter Heyo
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- #just wars
American citizens who joined the war against fascism in Spain were classified as ‘premature anti-fascists’ by the OSS (precursor to the CIA).
Slightly tangentially, @Heyo 's post put me in mind, for just a moment, of these stock stereotypes in war films:
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
You have my sympathy. It must be awful to be a socially intelligent American right now.
You wouldn’t be aware of this, but there are non-American people like me who are grieving the destruction of what was a bold and impressive social experiment.
I never really bought the American Dream, but there was a vitality in the music and literature which inspired me.
I wish you the very best. If you emigrate to Australia, we’ll catch up and have a beer. Unless we’re still in lockdown, ha ha.
I wasn't aware of that, although the OSS wasn't established until 1942.
I like "fascetiously". Sort of like facetiously, but with a bit of a Heil Hitler thrown in.
Ha! My spelling has gotten worse over the years, but me trying to type on my phone while cooking dinner? Epic fail...lol
I'm an outsider too (Australian) and this is the first time I could see a credible path to 'the end of empire'...
(Err...sorry...my hyperbole is more based on classical history than WW2, just showing that I get it).
It's scarcely credible what some people have convinced themselves to accept.
Oh, I get that. Although he's not funny, unfortunately.
I've thought about that, although I'm not sure where I would go or who would take me. Canada is too cold, although Mexico might be nice.
One of the recent Trump quotes:
"Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster," Trump said, when asked if he could commit to the peaceful transition.
"(G)et rid of the ballots and you'll have a very ... there won't be a transfer, frankly. There'll be a continuation."
He says this on national television and it seems nobody cares.
"Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster," Trump said, when asked if he could commit to the peaceful transition.
"(G)et rid of the ballots and you'll have a very ... there won't be a transfer, frankly. There'll be a continuation."
He says this on national television and it seems nobody cares.
There's also the little problem of the current pandemic. The US response has been so poor we can't go anywhere civilized. Other countries have banned us from coming in (which I understand frankly).
I think many of us have been aware of what's going on in the U.S. for a long time now. Even going back to the 1960s, people were quite cynical about the government and the various ruling institutions we were living under. There was a strong sense of skepticism and a questioning of authority which dominated the political culture. That started to evaporate by the 1980s and the Reagan era. The crime rate led people to support giving greater powers to the police. The so-called "War on Drugs" led to all kinds of new power given to the police and judiciary, and the public (from both sides) lapped it all up like milk served to kittens. 9/11, the "War on Terror," and the Patriot Act were also strongly supported across the board.
Of course, none of this is unprecedented. We've had McCarthyism, we've had Red Scares, we've had Mob-inspired corruption and thuggery - all in the name of "national interests" and capitalism. We know it can happen here because it already has happened here, but yet, we still managed to get through it and survive.
The main difference nowadays is that the culture has shifted to where most people are greedy, self-centered narcissists who are more interested in appearances than anything substantial. The public was able to stand up and oppose the likes of McCarthy, Hoover, Nixon, et al., mainly because the culture was more conducive towards people banding together for a common cause. Some of that feeling was undoubtedly due to the patriotism encouraged during the World Wars, but there were also many who took ideals such as "freedom" and "democracy" more literally and genuinely believed our government should practice what it was preaching. That appears to have fueled the post-war Civil Rights movement, as well as the subsequent anti-war movement and the opposition to the interventionist, national security state which had been created.
I'm not sure there's the same level of vigilance nowadays, and the culture is not as conducive as it once was towards mutual cooperation. Even if there are sharp divides between left and right in this country, there is also noticeable squabbling and infighting within both the left and the right as well. Even if they're trying to show a sense of "unity" as we get closer to the election, we all know that there are bitter rivalries and conflicts within the parties as well.
If it really does come to some sort of upheaval in America at the level of a civil war, I would guess that there would be multiple factions from all sides of the spectrum. It would probably be pretty chaotic, and any outside force coming in to intervene would be entering a maelstrom and a quagmire. I doubt it would be as organized as people seem to imply when they compare it to the Nazis, who came from a culture of collective obedience, order, and discipline. Considering how things have gone in recent years, what we'll probably see are an escalating number of "lone wolves" going on mass killing sprees, sometimes without any rhyme or reason. It's this kind of random, unpredictable, often apolitical activity which makes any kind of intervention all the more problematic. Imagine a whole country full of disgruntled postal workers.
They have no such obligation.
Also, we'd wipe the floor with their glow-in-the-dark hides.
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
It is worth watching some of the YouTube material which analyses his behaviour - and the behaviour of his supporters.
There is a lot of material there.
For anyone who ever wondered ‘How did such a twisted fruitloop as Hitler ever become so powerful’, just have a close look at all that material, because something similar is happening right in front of your eyes.
A lot of people may not believe that such a thing could happen. We still have a Constitution and a code of laws, and up until recently, most people still had confidence in the processes related to voting, collecting and counting the ballots. Even if people criticize other aspects of the process, such as the electoral college, the methods of nominating candidates, rules about who can be put on the ballot, etc., the basic idea of actually voting with confidence that one's vote will actually be counted was still there.
But now, there are serious doubts about whether our votes will even be counted or not. This election is going to be fought over and contested, with all kinds of accusations and investigations. In the meantime, the country will wait and watch, while the cities will burn and the next wave of coronavirus hits.
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exchemist
Veteran Member
This is because he has made such a habit of outrageous statements that everyone has got used to it and is no longer shocked. Trump has shifted the spectrum of what is considered "normal" political discourse. Hitler did the same thing.
He seems to have a method of hinting at some new outrageous thing, leaving it for a bit while he works at further undermining whatever the norm in question is, and then returning to the theme, a bit more directly. So little by little, people become acclimatised to what he is thinking of and see it as in some way a serious idea instead of unthinkable. It's a frog-boiling strategy. Hitler did that too, by all accounts.
What is shocking is that members of the Republican party, with a few honourable exceptions, seem to have lost their own moral compass and to have been seduced into supporting this behaviour, or at least tolerating it for the sake of the perceived ideological gains. That also happened in Nazi Germany.
exchemist
Veteran Member
The question, though, is who the "we" in question would be.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Send in the KSK to clean up and I'll buy 'em a round.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Remember that they're not our usual 3rd world foes with poor training and antiquated soviet hand-me-downs.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Sorry, can't do at the time. We have to de-nazify the KSK first. :-(
Germany far right: Elite KSK commando force 'to be partially disbanded'
But when that's done we'll send those who got rid of the KSK nazis.