1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Do religious people get it backwards?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nimos, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Messages:
    2,188
    Ratings:
    +1,226
    When we take on beliefs, we usually do so, because something convince of it being true and for pretty much all people this comes down to the amount and quality of evidence.

    We don't normally prefer to take on beliefs, if we don't thing there is anything to back them up. So for instance, most people will have a very difficult time believing that unicorns exists, because we see no evidence for it being the case.

    But to me at least, it seems like when you talk with religious people about their faith in a God or the supernatural, that they take an opposite approach.

    Meaning....

    God exist... therefore I have to find evidence for it

    Rather than doing what they would normally do....

    I have evidence for this..... therefore I believe it

    Now I doubt a lot of religious people will agree with this, so I would like to hear, how that is not the case for your particular belief?

    (When I say evidence, I mean something that can be verified as being true one way or another.)
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Ratings:
    +347
    Religion:
    I worship and believe in the One I see as the Source of Everything as a result of experience and faith. Label me as you see fit.
    Do you believe I exist as a separate human entity? Or am I an A.I.? Or maybe I am just a projection of your own subconscious... How do you know what is real? Do you believe you have any choice in the matter?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    12,714
    Ratings:
    +4,122
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    Faith is related to the Latin verb fideo which means "to trust".
    Theists trust in God's existence without having a tangible evidence. They feel it in their heart.
    It is more like a sensation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    18,501
    Ratings:
    +4,683
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I do the latter... I have evidence for God..... therefore I believe in God. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Ratings:
    +347
    Religion:
    I worship and believe in the One I see as the Source of Everything as a result of experience and faith. Label me as you see fit.
    The evidence is everywhere when one puts the right glasses on. It always feels words cannot properly describe it, like trying to explain a vague dream.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    12,714
    Ratings:
    +4,122
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    I love this metaphor. Thank you.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    11,462
    Ratings:
    +5,140
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Evidence is required in Faith.

    In fact I would have no Faith if there was no evidence.

    Spiritual Evidence, is not necessarily Scientific evidence, but in the end when we become more clever, they will not clash.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. SeekerOnThePath

    SeekerOnThePath On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Messages:
    347
    Ratings:
    +148
    Religion:
    Abrahamism is anti-Anthropomorphic, that is why it exists in the first place.
    Do backwards people get it forwards?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    33,639
    Ratings:
    +19,894
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Then the odds are that it is not really evidence at all but merely personal prejudice. I like objective evidence. No rose colored glasses needed.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Ratings:
    +347
    Religion:
    I worship and believe in the One I see as the Source of Everything as a result of experience and faith. Label me as you see fit.
    Can personal prejudice and individual subjectivity be fully put aside? I remember reading about photons that they can behave as waves as well as particles, but that it depends on how people look at it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    31,050
    Ratings:
    +12,390
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    Same here. Whats more truthful than direct observation and experience?


    One has to address the motivation behind things like talking snakes, donkeys, magical fruit, unicorns, walking on water and what not, is certainly not forward thinking.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    33,639
    Ratings:
    +19,894
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It can be very difficult to do so.

    One thing to remember, evidence is supposed to be able to cut both ways. In the sciences one cannot even begin to have "evidence" until one has a testable concept. In other words to claim that one has evidence for their God one should have a reasonable test that would refute their God. That is anathema to most believers.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,893
    Ratings:
    +1,086
    Religion:
    The Wrong One
    Yeah, now I like objective evidence for the fact that you like objective evidence! If no objective evidence can be given, I will consider it personal prejudice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Ratings:
    +347
    Religion:
    I worship and believe in the One I see as the Source of Everything as a result of experience and faith. Label me as you see fit.
    Very difficult, or impossible within the rules of what we call the scientific method?
     
  15. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    731
    Ratings:
    +181
    Religion:
    Christian
    please provide evidence for the assertion highlighted in red. Present a scientific study that shows that, for pretty much all people, yours is the method used when they arrive at a belief.
    Thomas
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,893
    Ratings:
    +1,086
    Religion:
    The Wrong One
    Can science be used in a positive sense on all aspects of the everyday world?
     
  17. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,955
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Atheist/non-religious
    What is spiritual evidence and how is what you described different from making excuses?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    7,681
    Ratings:
    +6,268
    Religion:
    Atheist
    We know how forums work.

    Advanced AI's are not that easy to make and cost quite some resources. There would be very little point to let one loose on religiousforums.com
    And a forum-posting AI so advanced to the point of third parties not even noticing the difference between the AI and an actual human, would only be even more unlikely to encounter on religiousforums.com


    Therefor the evidence of you being a human is extremely strong. So strong, that it would be nothing short of perverse to believe otherwise.

    If god would be supported by evidence even only half that strong, I'ld be a theist.
     
  19. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    7,681
    Ratings:
    +6,268
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You say that and I'm sure you believe it truelly.

    But in my experience, when I start digging into your belief and reasoning of belief, I find the opposite is true.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    7,681
    Ratings:
    +6,268
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I think you just confirmed the OP in a certain way.

    In order to see "evidence" for god, one needs different glasses.
    ie, you have "special rules" or standards when it comes to evidence for gods, as opposed to evidence for anything else.

    So, you seem to be confirming the OP that theists have a "special" approach when it comes to their god beliefs as opposed to any other belief.
     
    • Like Like x 5
Loading...