Do relaxed homework policies help or hurt children?

[Wandered Off]

Dallas ISD adds some new policies:

•Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it."

•Teachers must accept overdue assignments, and their principal will decide whether students are to be penalized for missing deadlines.

•Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade.

•Teachers cannot give a zero on an assignment unless they call parents and make "efforts to assist students in completing the work."

•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.

Dallas ISD defends changes in grading policy | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Front Page Stories

Do you think these are helpful for the students in the long run?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Dallas ISD adds some new policies:

Dallas ISD defends changes in grading policy | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Front Page Stories

Do you think these are helpful for the students in the long run?

It hurts everyone. Crap like this is part of the celebration of mediocrity that brings our entire country down in education.

 

[Gentoo]

I sort of agree with the last one... if most of the class is failing, then something is wrong, but 20% could be only a handful of kids if the place is small enough.

I think the rest are only going to hurt kids. They need to learn that there are consequences of not studying (failing) and not doing their assignments on time (zeros or lost chance of an A). I see these "guidelines" as babying the kids more than they are already.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I sort of agree with the last one... if most of the class is failing, then something is wrong, but 20% could be only a handful of kids if the place is small enough.

Yes. 10-15- or 20% is not "most" of any class, no matter what the size is.

When you're teaching a class full of dummies, a lot of them will fail, especially when the culture of the kids is characterized by laziness and this is encouraged by their parents.

 

[Gentoo]

Yes. 10-15- or 20% is not "most" of any class, no matter what the size is.

When you're teaching a class full of dummies, a lot of them will fail, especially when the culture of the kids is characterized by laziness and this is encouraged by their parents.

That's why I said sorta, 20% may not be "most" but if most are failling, then something needs to change. 20% is reaching.

 

[MoonWater]

The first one is VERY hurtful as it will only DIScourage kids from doing their work to the best of their abilities. The second I think is half good, I do think teacher's should accept late assignments but that the teacher should decide the penalty, after all it's the teacher's job to assign grades, not the principles. I like the third one as it gives students a chance to improve. Don't forget, the kid would still have to study hard in order to make sure they are able to improve their grade. The fourth is also crap. If a student is getting zeros the teacher should talk to the student not the parents unless they're in like kindergarten or first grade, at which age they shouldn't even be having to DEAL with homework assignments. As for the last one I do think that teacher's who have a high failing percentage should be taken a look at to make sure the problem ISN'T the teacher. But by high percentage I mean like more than 50% a couple semesters/years in a row. The rates given here are way too low. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if 20% failure were an average/common thing in high schools... I know it was at mine... it was probably higher. Also I don't think the teachers should know about this policy or even really know that their being investigated. I know that that's dirty and underhanded but if the teacher's know about the policy and/or know their being investigated then what's to stop them from simply adding a point here and there to bump up a students average so there aren't as many failures. Because that's what a policy like the one above will do. It won't better the school system it will just encourage the teachers to cheat.

 

[YmirGF]

•Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it."

Heaven forbid that little Juan be given a realistic grade for his efforts. I think they should also give him a large certificate simply for submitting his homework. Poor blighters.

••Teachers must accept overdue assignments, and their principal will decide whether students are to be penalized for missing deadlines.

Indeed. This will really prepare children for the work force. Employers are always most kind when one misses a deadline. I think this one is very realistic. I think they should also give him a large certificate simply for submitting his work. Isn't everybody a champion?

••Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade.

Again, this will help give children the much needed expectations of adult life where one gets repeated chances to get things right all the time. I think they should also give him a large certificate simply for submitting his test. Poor darlings.

••Teachers cannot give a zero on an assignment unless they call parents and make "efforts to assist students in completing the work."

Ah yes, it is intellectual suicide to assume that the student has even the slightest responsibility to perform specific tasks. This is another brilliant idea that will prepare individuals for "real" life. Bravo, Dallas ISD. Little Juan should also be given a pretty certificate for "participating", after all, everyone is just so special.

•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.

Now this nugget is especially brilliant thinking. Again, we see that there is no sense of personal responsibility here on the part of the student. If students are failing it is obviously a sign that the teacher involved is not doing their job. No doubt, many of you can remember times where your boss "took it on the chin" because she/he failed you in some way.

Do you think these are helpful for the students in the long run?

Of all the social problems that exist, the challenges in education are perhaps the greatest. I believe all the people who had a hand in passing these new rules should be forced to resign for dereliction of duty.

Then again, perhaps all enrolled students should be automatically granted a passing grade because even if they lick frozen pipes, even if they piddle themselves when excited, even if they must think for a moment before remembering their own name -- they are all friggin' special little tykes. God bless 'em, eh.

"Would you like fries with that, ma'am?" :help:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's why I said sorta, 20% may not be "most" but if most are failling, then something needs to change. 20% is reaching.

I think that if 20% are failing, it's a sign that something is seriously wrong, but not necessarily with the teacher's performance. There are plenty of other factors that would stop a student from acheiving the requirements of one grade or have the necessary skills and knowledge for the next one, and I think it's a bad idea to create an environment where a teacher would be afraid to call attention to problems.

 

[Wandered Off]

Employers are always most kind when one misses a deadline.

Doesn't DISD have a similar policy toward teachers who turn in grade reports late?

"Would you like fries with that, ma'am?"

We're proactively preparing them for the new service economy.

 

[Wandered Off]

I think it's a bad idea to create an environment where a teacher would be afraid to call attention to problems.

Indeed. Texas has created an environment where teachers seem to be afraid to teach anything that doesn't appear on the state mandated, standardized TAKS test. School ratings depend on average scores, so administrators apply pressure.

 

[blackout]

I know I will be in the minority here,
but when I send my children to school,
I will in no way enforce that they do homework.

I will also not be involved in assigned projects.

If they want to do it fine,
if not fine.

If the schools cannot teach my kids in the ??? 6 hours a day they have them,
(besides basic things like math facts, and life discussions, music and arts)
I will not be assisting them.

I have a life too.
If I need to home educate them when they get home,
then I may as well just home educate them in the morning
when it's more convenient for me.

I want my kids to do OTHER things THEY want to do
when they come home.
Stupid projects and busy work are not to be found on my priorities list.

But that's just me.

(they're not gunna like me.)

I'm not too concerened about grades either.

I'm more concerned that they know what they need to know,
to be who they want to be.
I want them to be educated individuals,
not standardized products of a school system.

 

[Apex]

Dallas ISD adds some new policies:

Dallas ISD defends changes in grading policy | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Front Page Stories

Do you think these are helpful for the students in the long run?

If you want to set up those kids to fail when they get into the real life, then those rules are great. However, the last rule is a good one. They use that one in college. When I took chemistry here there was such a high number of students who failed they put the entire chem. department on probation and completely reformatted the class for the next semester.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

However, the last rule is a good one. They use that one in college. When I took chemistry here there was such a high number of students who failed they put the entire chem. department on probation and completely reformatted the class for the next semester.

Of course, your college probably had entrance requirements and the course probably had prerequisites (which would have included exams where if you didn't know your stuff, you wouldn't get the course credit), and because of that, the administration would have been able to reasonably assume that the students had a certain base level of knowledge and ability before they took the course in question.

If every teacher is passing students for fear of creating trouble for themselves, then that assumption probably wouldn't be a reasonable one to make.

 

[Zephyr]

Jumbo post

Very thorough and echos my thoughts exactly. You're pretty good at that. School should prepare you for real life, above all else. Not so much to get a job, but to be able to survive on your own. These policies are just trying to legitimatize mediocrity.

I know I will be in the minority here,
but when I send my children to school,
I will in no way enforce that they do homework.

I will also not be involved in assigned projects.

If they want to do it fine,
if not fine.

If the schools cannot teach my kids in the ??? 6 hours a day they have them,
(besides basic things like math facts, and life discussions, music and arts)
I will not be assisting them.

I have a life too.
If I need to home educate them when they get home,
then I may as well just home educate them in the morning
when it's more convenient for me.

I want my kids to do OTHER things THEY want to do
when they come home.
Stupid projects and busy work are not to be found on my priorities list.

But that's just me.

(they're not gunna like me.)

I'm not too concerened about grades either.

I'm more concerned that they know what they need to know,
to be who they want to be.
I want them to be educated individuals,
not standardized products of a school system.

Thank the gods not everybody has this attitude. Without guidance, can you trust a kid to turn out alright in modern society? Haven't you realized that kids are dumb? Allowing your kids to not work, and not helping them when they need it will only set them up for failure in the future. It's really kind of sickening. I understand that sometimes, yes, kids need to be alone and think for themselves, but this is just negligent.

How can you not be ashamed of yourself here? :slap:

 

[blackout]

Thank the gods not everybody has this attitude. Without guidance, can you trust a kid to turn out alright in modern society? Haven't you realized that kids are dumb? Allowing your kids to not work, and not helping them when they need it will only set them up for failure in the future. It's really kind of sickening. I understand that sometimes, yes, kids need to be alone and think for themselves, but this is just negligent.

How can you not be ashamed of yourself here? :slap:

I knew that I would be judged within one or two posts.

I'm sure this won't be the last.

Good thing then that your kids are yours
and mine are mine.

(why you ever conclude that I do not provide them guidance I do not know.
except that you do not know me at all.)

And I do not agree at all that kids are dumb
(based on the fact that they are kids.)
Kids are not cookie cutters either.

And I ask you, 6 hours a day in school is not enough work?
How many hours to adults spend a day on the job?

 

[MoonWater]

I have to agree with you vi that I don't think there should be homework unless it's a long term thing, and even then I feel that most of the work should be at school where they can go right to the teachr with any questions. Though I do disagree on the notion of 6 hours being enough, don't forget they may be there for six hours but will only spend 1 hour on each subject, which in my experience is barely enough to get through the days lesson, let alone any work. So, while I do think there is a better way though, I do think that school should be longer. Besides if school is supposed to prepare kids for the real world, and in the real world the majority of adults need to work at least 8 hours a day to make end's meet, then it would seem reasonable to me that starting by high school, kids should be in school about 8 hours a day as well. Certainly not so long in elementary school, but definitely by high school. They could work their way up... 6 in elementary, 7 in middle, and 8 in high school, so the transition isn't such a shock. Besides the home is rarely a good working environment. I know the first thing I want to do when I get home from a long hard day at school is relax, not spend a long hard evening working on my homework. Most of which just seems like busy work.

 

[Heneni]

•Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it."

Good idea because the child will never feel that they are in competition with their peers but rather in competion with themselves. Positive re-inforcement 101.

•Teachers must accept overdue assignments, and their principal will decide whether students are to be penalized for missing deadlines.

NOPE, bad idea. Time management is a key skill that they will need as adults.

•Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade.

Good idea. It means they can learn from their mistakes. Remember they are just kids, who need to do just that. Give them the opportunity to correct themselves.

•Teachers cannot give a zero on an assignment unless they call parents and make "efforts to assist students in completing the work."

Time consuming and emotionally draining. Parents can be terribly unreasonable when contacted as well. But alas, it is our job to give the child every opportunity to succeed. Every effort must be made by a teacher to motivate inspire and have high expectations. Unfortunately many students are diseffected, not interested in education, which when we analyse it, comes down to poor self-esteem and a sense of worthlessness and hopelessness. Sure there are the no gooders, but teachers are expected to always give the extra nudge. It isnt even really 'extra' its what a teacher does. A child interprets a zero as 'im useless' or worse, their parents interpret it as a reflection of uselessness. Stricktly speaking no kid is a zero. The score is intented to reflect on their skills and abilities. A zero does not mean they have no skills and abilities, it means they didnt try.

•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.

Absolutely essential. An educator does not have the luxury of standing back and shaking their heads at the underachievers. Nope, every educator is employed to do just that...educate. If that means changing strategy, methods and assesment tasks, then so be it. Every child has the ability to succeed, if they are taught in a manner that they can relate to. Its a tought job being a teacher, but when you do these things every child can have 'access' to learning and succeeding.

All of the above,(except handing stuff in late), places the responsiblity for improvement of scores on the child, makes him/her their only competion, and it makes the teacher accountable for poor results, and at the same time, it allows for a change in course for both the teacher and the student.

 

[YmirGF]

•Homework grades should be given only when the grades will "raise a student's average, not lower it."

Good idea because the child will never feel that they are in competition with their peers but rather in competion with themselves. Positive re-inforcement 101.

The simple reality of life is that the precious little smurfs are IN competition with each other regardless of how they feel about it. I'll check by on your sentiments in a generation or two.

•Students who flunk tests can retake the exam and keep the higher grade.

Good idea. It means they can learn from their mistakes. Remember they are just kids, who need to do just that. Give them the opportunity to correct themselves.

Maybe I am just being silly, but I was always under the impression that tests were meant as benchmarks, not as dry runs. In theory, the idea is to get the little darlings to give the right answer the first time. My thinking is that if they understand that a test score is like the best 2 out of 3 falls, then they won't try so hard to get it right the first time.

•High school teachers who fail more than 20 percent of their students will need to develop a professional improvement plan and will be monitored by their principals. For middle school the rate is 15 percent; for elementary it's 10 percent.

Absolutely essential. An educator does not have the luxury of standing back and shaking their heads at the underachievers. Nope, every educator is employed to do just that...educate. If that means changing strategy, methods and assesment tasks, then so be it. Every child has the ability to succeed, if they are taught in a manner that they can relate to.

That is somewhat obvious, but do you really expect the teacher to break out the hand puppets for the class so that a few "challenged" individuals can determine why 1+1 = 2? Perhaps if we simply reinforced the idea that it is OK to FAIL and that the kids just need to work a little bit harder, then perhaps they can wrap their puny brains around the elementary topics being offered.

Its a tought job being a teacher, but when you do these things every child can have 'access' to learning and succeeding.

I can dig the thought about "everyone is a little success story, waiting to be" but surely there must be some onus put on the student to perform well. Why not just make failing acceptable. If you don't make the cut, you get held back. What is the big deal here?

All of the above,(except handing stuff in late), places the responsiblity for improvement of scores on the child, makes him/her their only competion, and it makes the teacher accountable for poor results, and at the same time, it allows for a change in course for both the teacher and the student.

Given that each of the little sweethearts will be in competition for most of their adult life with other human animals, what exactly, is wrong with giving them a dose of reality while they are still learning the ropes? I don't get it.

 

[Panda]

I agree with Ymir in this.
Competition is a class is good, it encourages more studying and increase each persons motivation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe I am just being silly, but I was always under the impression that tests were meant as benchmarks, not as dry runs. In theory, the idea is to get the little darlings to give the right answer the first time. My thinking is that if they understand that a test score is like the best 2 out of 3 falls, then they won't try so hard to get it right the first time.

What do you see as the role for a test? Is it a challenge to be bested, or is it a measurement of the knowledge that the student has?

In the first case, I'd agree that it's counter-productive to gloss over failures, but in terms of student "quality assurance", if they know the stuff, they know it, regardless of the process they took to learn it. If the point of the math test at the end of one unit is to make sure that the kids know what they'll need to understand the next unit, then a pass after ten failures fulfils the test's purpose just as much as a pass on the first try.

I can dig the thought about "everyone is a little success story, waiting to be" but surely there must be some onus put on the student to perform well. Why not just make failing acceptable. If you don't make the cut, you get held back. What is the big deal here?

I think the big deal is that there is harm to the students associated with being held back. Personally, I don't think that just letting every student breeze by is the best way to deal with this, though.

I think that you can get the message through to the child that his or her actions have consequences by other means. For example, if a child is just a bit below the normal standard for one grade, passing them but with the requirement that they go through some sort of remedial program or special help (e.g. they work through their lunch getting back up to speed on the stuff they need help with) can be more effective than flat-out failing them.

I think that failing a child is still an option, but it's an option of last resort, and not something to be used lightly.