Do People Have a Right to Lie?

[SomeRandom]

When do you suppose was the last moment in human history right before humans had learned so much about so many things that there were no longer any humans who couldn't be fooled into doing themselves some kind of harm by someone who knew a little something more than they did about this or that thing, and was thus able to gain an advantage on them in lying to them?

I don’t think such a time ever existed. I mean aren’t there literally Suicide cults in recent history even?
Besides what’s the old adage? A sucker is born every minute?

Have you had a chance to think about that in terms of how many tradition-based morals, customs, laws, and regulations might be out of touch with reality when it comes to the dangers of some common kinds of lying?

Tradition based morals are at best fairytales for justifying antiquated notions of what’s “right and wrong.” I much prefer ethics as opposed to morals. Ethical values are pragmatic, at least that’s how I view things.
Customs I associate with religious rituals and rites of passage. So I fail to see any connection to lies per se. Unless one believes that all religions are lies, I suppose.
Laws and regulations have had to change to keep up with the changing reality of society. Even in my own lifetime, I’ve seen this happen. As they should. We should always be open to change, imo. Because it is hubristic to think we’ve reached any sort of peak wisdom regarding anything.

Bet you will find plenty of posts in this thread that sound like truisms, folk wisdom, platitudes, noble defenses of personal freedoms. Bet you won't find one that jives with the science on lying.

Perhaps.

This is by no means directed at you, friend. You're RF's leading candidate in my book for being our Forum's most likely to be here to actually learn something member. Just want to say, these are very dangerous times for anyone who's been coasting on what they learned of the world back in high school.

Aww shucks. You’re too kind. I try to learn what I can. That’s about all you can do really.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A fundamental right to lie?
Outside of being under oath or a public obligation to tell the truth?
News reporters, do they have a public obligation to tell the truth?
If there is an obligation to tell the truth, where does it begin? Where does it end?

I would think News reporters should report both sides of the story.
In Scripture a lie is either: on purpose or not, intentional or not, willful or not, deliberate or not, accidental or not.....
Lies begin with desires - James 1:13-15
Where does it end? Enemies of God are Not entitled to information - 1 Samuel 21:12-15 - where David feigned insanity.

 

[Deeje]

Would that apply to Christians who support the leaders and agenda of their particular religious group and then hear that they have been lying but don't want to believe it. Have we an obligation to investigate whether they have been lying?

What a transparently loaded question.... based as usual on misconceptions.

All liars will answer to God. Those who make mistakes in timing will be forgiven...even as the apostles were. (Acts 1:6) The Kingdom was not going to be 'restored to Israel at that time' but they expected it to be...and longed for it to be. The coming of the Kingdom was kept immanent even in Jesus day. Keeping the Kingdom immanent was a way to keep spirits up, and hope bright. (Hebrews 6:17-19)

Did Peter deny knowing Jesus three times? Did Thomas doubt Jesus' resurrection? Human frailties were all taken into consideration by Jesus and his Father.....(Psalm 103:14)

Deliberate disobedience is not the same as making speculations about possibilities. It’s why we have the Watchtower as our logo.
The watchman stood on the watchtower and alerted the people of something approaching.....if it was important, the people were ready, but if it was a false alarm, they went back to business as usual.....Jesus told us to”keep on the watch”....so we have.

 

[Secret Chief]

Porkies are practically in our DNA. Numerous studies have shown we all do it, regularly, for different reasons. Not sure how "right" can fit into that.

The Origins of Lying and Deception in Everyday Life

 

[Kooky]

We have a right to lie.
We (not me) exercise it frequently.
But there are sometimes negative sanctions.

Oh, there's also a right to prevaricate & otherwise mislead.
Even a right to be incorrect, & not even wrong.

Not to mention the right to escape any sort of legal consequence to one's behavior.

 

[Duke_Leto]

“Rights” are a legal fiction. I don’t see any reason they should ever be discussed outside a legal context. That is, a right is, in practice, something a government grants you and something it can take away.

 

[Kooky]

“Rights” are a legal fiction. I don’t see any reason they should ever be discussed outside a legal context. That is, a right is, in practice, something a government grants you and something it can take away.

I feel that in practice, it is often the masses who fight for their rights and glean it from governments. There is not a single modern civil right that hasn't been bitterly fought for with mass action, lobbying, or naked violence to force the government's hands.

 

[stvdv]

Do People Have a Right to Lie?

A fundamental right to lie?
Outside of being under oath or a public obligation to tell the truth?

IMO:

No. Of course I am free to lie (free will, as in choice), but it's not my Spiritual Right, it's not my highest Dharma

The Universe came from Truth, but of course it candle handle my lies
That's called karmic consequences or Newtons Law (action/reaction)
@stvdvRF

 

[stvdv]

News reporters, do they have a public obligation to tell the truth?

IF I were a "News reporter" I would feel it my public obligation to tell the truth
IF I were a "Fake News reporter" I would not feel this obligation to tell the truth

Does the 1st amendment get in the way of this?

IMO:

Not really.

Freedom of Speech, means "free to tell the truth, even when inconvenient"; it does not mean "free to lie"; the law makes this clear with the "under oath"
@stvdvRF

 

[Revoltingest]

Not to mention the right to escape any sort of legal consequence to one's behavior.

Where & how is that a recognized right?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A fundamental right to lie?
Outside of being under oath or a public obligation to tell the truth?

News reporters, do they have a public obligation to tell the truth?
Does the 1st amendment get in the way of this?

In some cases, the truth can cause unnecessary harm or unwanted consequences. People, for your own good lie to you. Do others have a right to decide what is good for you?

If there is an obligation to tell the truth, where does it begin? Where does it end?

I think there is a difference between the legal right to lie and the moral obligation to tell the truth. I'm just a regular citizen that has normal conversations with people, and I should tell the truth as I am bound by moral law, but legally there is no law preventing me from lying, with certain restrictions (I'm not allowed to slander, etc.)

Certain cases have a much, much greater moral obligation to truth telling, i.e. the Media. This is why the media has a moral code which compels it to check multiple sources, etc. When the media does not follow this code, it leads to mistakes, and when these mistakes come to light, a medium will lose its credibility and ultimately its audience. Fox is a good example of this, though it is not the only one.

In some cases, the moral obligation to tell the truth is so high that the social consequences are rather drastic. We may break off a friendship, or recall a politician, or shun someone we feel was wrongly acquitted of a crime.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Freedom of Speech, means "free to tell the truth, even when inconvenient"; it does not mean "free to lie"; the law makes this clear with the "under oath"
@stvdvRF

I'm afraid this is just not true, even if this is what we would like to be true. Most statements are NOT made under oath, so adding your clarification of being under oath simply doesn't apply.

 

[stvdv]

I'm afraid this is just not true

IMO:

No need to be afraid to share your truth/opinion, that's why we have Freedom of Speech.

I'm afraid this is just not true, even if this is what we would like to be true. Most statements are NOT made under oath, so adding your clarification of being under oath simply doesn't apply.

Under Freedom of speech you, as anyone else, are free to share "your/their Truth", of course it's not the Big Truth, but it's your opinon which you are free to share, some will agree, and others not, just like "a belief" or POV.

For me Freedom of Speech means Freedom to share one's truth/opinion, it's not meant (to endorse) to share one's lies or to lie and cheat on others. But you are free of course to disagree with me. Hence the phrase "I agree to disagree".
@stvdvRF

 

[rational experiences]

Lying the condition began with science claiming I own what I want to convert by my forced machine status.

Forced natural not a machine.

Brother says natural forces natural laws.

He the confessed to lying said I broke natural law. The law stone.

We said O in science God earth stone the seal was keeping us safe.

How dangerous lying is just because you want to. As it is a choice.

 

[Nakosis]

I think there is a difference between the legal right to lie and the moral obligation to tell the truth. I'm just a regular citizen that has normal conversations with people, and I should tell the truth as I am bound by moral law, but legally there is no law preventing me from lying, with certain restrictions (I'm not allowed to slander, etc.)

Certain cases have a much, much greater moral obligation to truth telling, i.e. the Media. This is why the media has a moral code which compels it to check multiple sources, etc. When the media does not follow this code, it leads to mistakes, and when these mistakes come to light, a medium will lose its credibility and ultimately its audience. Fox is a good example of this, though it is not the only one.

In some cases, the moral obligation to tell the truth is so high that the social consequences are rather drastic. We may break off a friendship, or recall a politician, or shun someone we feel was wrongly acquitted of a crime.

I just don't think we should assume anyone, press or otherwise, is going to have the same moral standard.

I would feel an obligation to not lie if that was part of my job. However, how one tells the truth can be misleading. I think this is where journalists might equivocate on the truth.

You can tell part of the truth which might lead people to the wrong conclusion. I suspect that happens a lot.

 

[Nakosis]

IMO:

No need to be afraid to share your truth/opinion, that's why we have Freedom of Speech.


Under Freedom of speech you, as anyone else, are free to share "your/their Truth", of course it's not the Big Truth, but it's your opinon which you are free to share, some will agree, and others not, just like "a belief" or POV.

For me Freedom of Speech means Freedom to share one's truth/opinion, it's not meant (to endorse) to share one's lies or to lie and cheat on others. But you are free of course to disagree with me. Hence the phrase "I agree to disagree".
@stvdvRF

I think there are those who are happy to share their lies. No obligation to do otherwise. Most feel an obligation to tell the truth. You just never know which person you ran into who doesn't.

 

[stvdv]

I think there are those who are happy to share their lies. No obligation to do otherwise. Most feel an obligation to tell the truth. You just never know which person you ran into who doesn't.

True, not all people choose to interpret the Law as it was meant to be, and usually they do it to get away with their devious plans.

But for me this does not mean we should compromise our respectful values and 'lower' ourselves to their selfish values. That was the yeast of my reply

 

[Twilight Hue]

A fundamental right to lie?
Outside of being under oath or a public obligation to tell the truth?

News reporters, do they have a public obligation to tell the truth?
Does the 1st amendment get in the way of this?

In some cases, the truth can cause unnecessary harm or unwanted consequences. People, for your own good lie to you. Do others have a right to decide what is good for you?

If there is an obligation to tell the truth, where does it begin? Where does it end?

Technically yes but practically no.

Things like false advertising, false pretense as a couple of examples can be very harmful if not dangerous at times.

I think In general a person has a right to lie while others have a right to call out a liar.

 

[MonkeyFire]

If you have the right to lie, believers then have the right to not do science if they do choose.