I never really cared about Meister Eckhart.
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"Do Not Prattle About God"
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
On the one hand, I'd tend to agree. On the other, he seems to be condemning himself.
arthra
Baha'i
In the Baha'i belief... the essence of God is unknowable but the attributes of God are knowable at least in part. When God sends a Prophet or is manifest through a Prophet we can know more... Here are some excerpts from the Writings on the subject of the Essence of God being unknowable:
"All the people have formed a god in the world of thought, and that form of their own imagination they worship; when the fact is that the imagined form is finite and the human mind is infinite. Surely the infinite is greater than the finite, for imagination is accidental while the mind is essential; surely the essential is greater than the accidental. Therefore consider: All the sects and peoples worship their own thought; they create a god in their own minds and acknowledge him to be the creator of all things, when that form is a superstition -- thus people adore and worship imagination.
"That Essence of the Divine Entity and the Unseen of the unseen is holy above imagination and is beyond thought. Consciousness doth not reach It. Within the capacity of comprehension of a produced reality that Ancient Reality cannot be contained. It is a different world; from it there is no information; arrival thereat is impossible; attainment thereto is prohibited and inaccessible. This much is known: It exists and Its existence is certain and proven -- but the condition is unknown."
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 381
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Who is this god of which you speak?
If he is a Mountain, then surely I can climb him.
If he an Ocean, then surely I can sail upon him.
If he is the Wind, then I surely I can breathe him in and become him.
Augustus
…
Apophatic theology more reflects the Neoplatonist influences on Early Christianity and, post schism, is more prevalent in the Eastern Orthodox traditions. Such views date back to the earliest days of Christianity though and can be found in many traditions.
"We do not know what God is. God Himself does not know what He is because He is not anything. Literally God is not, because He transcends being"
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Fortunately, Eckhart's opinion is only the musings of a man who of his own admission here, taking him at this word, is an ignoramus on this subject - since the subject of his opinion is exactly about that which he says he cannot understand. Claiming then that understanding anything about him is wrong, he actually shows and provides us with evidence for not taking him as anything but an ignoramus in his own claims.
While humans can say little about God without Him revealing himself to us, that old theologian should have know this quote:
Romans 1: (ESV)
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
In the above, we can see that some of the divine attributes may be seen from the glory of the works around us. Just like the scientists at the LHC in Cern cannot see anything of the experiments they perform, but have to rely on sensors, computer speed and the capture of data to gaze into the reality hidden to human eyes, and with these tools dig out attributes of the hidden reality, likewise can we see some of the hidden attributes of God in the mathematics of our universe, the study of astrophysics, medicine, biology, etc.
Besides the book of nature we can study, God has revealed things about himself in scripture. Thus, some things may be understood. Yet, do we understand anything beyond what is revealed in the book of nature and in direct scripture? Obviously, this is impossible and will never be possible.
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I agree.
Athena Plato
"Who do you say I am?"
“Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get Wisdom : and with all thy getting get understanding. Exalt Her, and She shall promote thee : She shall bring thee to Honour, when thou dost embrace Her. She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace : a crown of glory shall She deliver to thee.” †
“The beginning is the most important part of the work.” --Plato, 380 BC.
The Book of Life and Knowledge (Bible) is God’s attempt to teach Mankind. Some refuse the forbidden fruit and others eat of it and digest it and share it with others. It’s the very reason God planted the tree in the Garden of Eden in the first place.
Many discredit the beginning of the Bible (Genesis) as having no value. But, in reality, it provides us with the context, and purpose of the Word of God. If we deny its usefulness, then it would be like a judge attempting to resolve a court disagreement without reading the applicant’s complaint, and what He or She is seeking. Or a teacher teaching a lesson without knowing what the lesson is or intends to prove. In Genesis the applicant, teacher and judge is God. If, Mankind blindly reads God’s scripture, parables, metaphors, stories, laws, and lessons learned; without reasoning or seeking an understanding of what they mean; to me, that is the First Sin of Ignorance.
“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.” †
(King James Bible Annotations † Genesis 3:6,20 † Proverbs 4:7,8,9).
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
Of course God is beyond our understanding; a being simple enough for our minds to grasp could hardly have created those same minds. But I don't see why "prattling" about something bigger than yourself is bad or sinful. We talk about what we do not understand fully all the time, and indeed have no choice but to do so. Most things are infinitely complicated beyond hope of fully understanding, if you look at them closely enough.
Pudding
Well-Known Member
The understanding that "God is beyond all understanding" itself is an understanding about God.
If God is beyond all understanding, then why does he still have the understanding about God that "God is beyond all understanding"?
He have the understanding about God that "God is beyond all understanding", his own belief imply that God is not in his understanding about God.
By understanding something about God that "God is beyond all understanding", his own belief imply that he fall into ignorance.
If god is beyond all understanding, we would not need a word for it.
I agree. Anyone who thinks "God is beyomd understanding" and claims to be a theist hasn't thought their position through.
The rational position for someone who really does think that God is beyond understanding is ignosticism, not theism.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Ergo, he cannot regard anything as god. An honest and rational position. Albeit, I doubt one he meant.