Do Men Even Want Women?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is not in a debate section but I thought it would be better here.

So in today's culture it's sort of taken as a given that attractive women will wear makeup to give the illusion of clear skin, big eyes, red lips and dainty brows; they will have no body hair at all; they will have thin, tiny figures and high, somewhat annoying voices.

The problem is that this is not a woman. Women have body hair; their faces are not perfectly even with flawless skin, huge eyes and red lips; their bodies have some fat and are not tiny.

It seems to me like men, or women who like women sometimes, prefer a woman to look like a little girl. Little girls have hairless bodies, big eyes, smooth skin and petite figures. Not even a teen girl, a little girl. Teen girls have body hair and so-so skin.

It seems to me that the modern image of a beautiful woman is of a little girl with big breasts.

I find this very disturbing.

Some men don't want women, they want an idealised version of a woman - but they don't know what that is. So women have to tell or show them what that is.

 

[Mindmaster]

It needs to change because people DO look down on women who don't comply. Especially other women. The culture should not promote one or the other. Whether or not a woman has body hair should not be a concern.

Mostly what women are doing is reinforced by other women, so who is promoting this culture? Take your average women's rag and you'll see the same thing that is in the men's things - skinny girls, photo-shopped to ****, and youthful wrinkle-hiding makeup -- with everything pruned, waxed, and exfoliated.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Yes but lack of body hair is prepubescent. I had leg, pubic and underarm hair at 13. Below that is a bit *too* youthful, you know?

Lol, i am a guy, and still at age over 60 check to see if my pubic hair has started yet ...

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is not in a debate section but I thought it would be better here.

So in today's culture it's sort of taken as a given that attractive women will wear makeup to give the illusion of clear skin, big eyes, red lips and dainty brows; they will have no body hair at all; they will have thin, tiny figures and high, somewhat annoying voices.

The problem is that this is not a woman. Women have body hair; their faces are not perfectly even with flawless skin, huge eyes and red lips; their bodies have some fat and are not tiny.

It seems to me like men, or women who like women sometimes, prefer a woman to look like a little girl. Little girls have hairless bodies, big eyes, smooth skin and petite figures. Not even a teen girl, a little girl. Teen girls have body hair and so-so skin.

It seems to me that the modern image of a beautiful woman is of a little girl with big breasts.

I find this very disturbing.

I dunno what started this pedo craze. Maybe it's the taboo aspect.

 

[Mindmaster]

I dunno what started this pedo craze. Maybe it's the taboo aspect.

I just think it's strange that people think because you find youth-related attributes sexually appealing that you desire to be intimate with children, lol. Logic does not compute - just because you like perfect skin, non-hairy, or with other features doesn't mean you are looking to become a pedobear. Being attracted to youthfulness doesn't mean you want youths, just people who are old enough and aren't used up.

Personally, I'm just more attracted to a new car than a used one. Same with my women, before I chose my wife. I see any more reason to settle for inferior physical traits any more than I do for mental ones. I want the "best" either way, and I'm entitled to have it.

 

[Rival]

Humans just confuse me. We adapt the environment to suit us, rather than the other way around. We eat foods that we are not supposed to eat. We piece our bodies and stick pieces of metal or plastic in the wound. We are not ever happy with what Nature gave us and this I just find severely depressing. And when we try to 'fix' Nature's 'mistakes' we just damage the environment and our own bodies and say 'Look! It's better now!'

 

[Skwim]

STD rates have gone *way up* since people started shaving their pubes.

Really? Please share your sources because from what I've read the AMA says:

For years, gynecologists have had a bird’s-eye view on a phenomenon that is now so popular as to be almost commonplace: female genitalia, bereft of hair.

Sometimes called “grooming,” the practice of shearing off pubic hair — parodied on “Saturday Night Live,” celebrated as a girl-bonding ritual by various “Real Housewives” — has prompted sexual health experts to ask what motivates women to do it.

A new study published in the journal JAMA Dermatology on Wednesday confirmed just how widespread the practice is. Sixty-two percent of a nationally representative sample of 3,316 women said they opted for complete removal of their pubic hair at least once; 84 percent reported some grooming.

But while previous research showed that women groom to facilitate sexual activity, this survey found the overwhelming majority said they did so for hygiene.

Although some researchers speculate that micro-abrasions and nicks from grooming may facilitate the spread of sexually transmitted infections, no large studies have definitively made that connection.
source​

Underarm and pubic hair serve a purpose and ought to be there.

And women ought not to wear high heels, which put a strain on leg muscles and can deform feet; or bras, which often promotes breast pain, something that's been linked to breast cancer; or panties, which help promote undesirable bacterial growth in the pubic region.

Theoretically no, we don't *need* to use deodorant, but it's not harmful or arbitrary either.

Actually, it appears that deodorants and antiperspirants can be pretty harmful.

"Antiperspirants May Kill Off Beneficial Armpit Bacteria

Antiperspirants May Increase Odor-Producing Bacteria in Your Armpits

Parabens in Deodorant May Be Linked to Breast Cancer

Habitual use of deodorants and antiperspirants has a significant effect on armpit bacterial density and variation

Aluminum in antiperspirants is known to accumulate in breast tissue and may be linked to an increased cancer risk

Antiperspirants block sweat production in your underarms; sweating helps your body to eliminate toxins, which supports proper immune function and helps prevent diseases related to toxic overload
source​

Removal of hair is actively harmful as it leaves minute scars.

Not if a wax removal method is used or care is taken when shaving---don't be in such a hurry.

. After removing armpit hair then applying deodorant the deodorant can enter the bloodstream. That's not cool.

So deodorant used on a hairy arm pit doesn't get into the bloodstream?

In any case I think all of us have a pretty cool picture of what you're like; A braless, pantyless, hairy female who probably announces herself before entering any room in flip flops. Which is quite okay. To thine own self be true.

.

 

[SomeRandom]

Humans just confuse me. We adapt the environment to suit us, rather than the other way around. We eat foods that we are not supposed to eat. We piece our bodies and stick pieces of metal or plastic in the wound. We are not ever happy with what Nature gave us and this I just find severely depressing. And when we try to 'fix' Nature's 'mistakes' we just damage the environment and our own bodies and say 'Look! It's better now!'

Humans are experimental. Always looking for new experiences to keep our brains happy.
This can manifest itself as ennui and even boredom. But nature isn't always the way. I personally prefer a house to a cave and I quite like harnessed electricity and indoor plumbing and driving instead of walking everywhere and shoes instead of hurting my feet and clothes instead of being cold and etc etc etc.

 

[Rival]

Really? Please share your sources, because from what I've read the AMA says:

For years, gynecologists have had a bird’s-eye view on a phenomenon that is now so popular as to be almost commonplace: female genitalia, bereft of hair.

Sometimes called “grooming,” the practice of shearing off pubic hair — parodied on “Saturday Night Live,” celebrated as a girl-bonding ritual by various “Real Housewives” — has prompted sexual health experts to ask what motivates women to do it.

A new study published in the journal JAMA Dermatology on Wednesday confirmed just how widespread the practice is. Sixty-two percent of a nationally representative sample of 3,316 women said they opted for complete removal of their pubic hair at least once; 84 percent reported some grooming.

But while previous research showed that women groom to facilitate sexual activity, this survey found the overwhelming majority said they did so for hygiene.

Although some researchers speculate that micro-abrasions and nicks from grooming may facilitate the spread of sexually transmitted infections, no large studies have definitively made that connection.​

source​

And women ought not to wear high heels, which put a strain on leg muscles and can deform feet; or bras, which often promotes breast pain, something that's been linked to breast cancer; or panties, which help promote undesirable bacterial growth in the pubic region.


Actually, deodorants and antiperspirants seem to be pretty harmful.

"Antiperspirants May Kill Off Beneficial Armpit Bacteria

Antiperspirants May Increase Odor-Producing Bacteria in Your Armpits

Parabens in Deodorant May Be Linked to Breast Cancer

Habitual use of deodorants and antiperspirants has a significant effect on armpit bacterial density and variation

Aluminum in antiperspirants is known to accumulate in breast tissue and may be linked to an increased cancer risk

Antiperspirants block sweat production in your underarms; sweating helps your body to eliminate toxins, which supports proper immune function and helps prevent diseases related to toxic overload
source​

Not if a wax removal method is used or care is taken when shaving---don't be in such a hurry.


So deodorant used on a hairy arm pit doesn't get into the bloodstream?

In any case I think all of us have a pretty cool picture of what you're like; A braless, pantyless, hairy female who probably announces herself before entering any room in flip flops. Which is quite okay. To thine own self be true.

Yes. I don't wear bras either. Or heels. I would totally go without underwear if I could but it's not worth the societal risk.

http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/246581/pubic-hair-shaving-raises-std-risk-study/

The bizarre reason why more and more women are shaving their pubic hair

 

[Rival]

Humans are experimental. Always looking for new experiences to keep our brains happy.
This can manifest itself as ennui and even boredom. But nature isn't always the way. I personally prefer a house to a cave and I quite like harnessed electricity and indoor plumbing and driving instead of walking everywhere and shoes instead of hurting my feet and clothes instead of being cold and etc etc etc.

And look what those things have done. Wrecked the environment with CO2. Made humans fat and lazy. The list goes on.

 

[Rival]

Basically you guys, I kinda support a return-to-the-jungle sorta thing so you aren't going to win with me xD

 

[SomeRandom]

And look what those things have done. Wrecked the environment with CO2. Made humans fat and lazy. The list goes on.

And it has also made technological advancement easier, allowed scientists to explore to the ends of the universe and back and continues to astound previous generations with what is achievable by man.
Besides, you're on here too. I don't see you living without clothes, shelter and eeking a living off the land as nature intended. Or perhaps you do and you're in a library right now leeching off the free wi fi, I dunno. Either way, we're both in this unnatural civilization whether we agree with it or not.

The way I see it, you can either waste your time lamenting our short comings or use what you have at your disposal to do something productive. Or bum around on the net. I don't care. I do it often.

 

[Skwim]

Yes. I don't wear bras either. Or heels. I would totally go without underwear if I could but it's not worth the societal risk.

Not understanding what the societal risk would be.

http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/246581/pubic-hair-shaving-raises-std-risk-study/

I found the following interesting

"The study merely observed a correlation between grooming and STDs, and cannot conclude that one causes the other.

But the authors speculated that shaving or waxing may cause “microtears” in the skin, creating easy access for viruses.

Sharing tools such as razors may also be a risk, they said, citing a case of HIV transmission between brothers using the same blade.

“As a third possible explanation for our findings, individuals who groom may be more likely to engage in risky sexual behaviors than those who do not groom,” said the study published in the journal Sexually Transmitted Infections."​

Personally, I find the third reason here the most likely. And more personally, I prefer the bare look.

The bizarre reason why more and more women are shaving their pubic hair

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not understanding what the societal risk would be.
.

I've seen a girl fall on a dancefloor whilst sans underwear. Whilst the societal risk would have been minimal if she was wearing pants, her skirt didn't do much to reduce it...

 

[Skwim]

I've seen a girl fall on a dancefloor whilst sans underwear. Whilst the societal risk would have been minimal if she was wearing pants, her skirt didn't do much to reduce it...

And you're pretty sure it wasn't all on purpose? It wouldn't be the first time a woman set out to do a little "accidental" flashing.

.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And you're pretty sure it wasn't all on purpose? It wouldn't be the first time a woman set out to do a little "accidental" flashing.

.

Knowing the particular girl, I can confidently say;
1) She would do this 'accidentally' on purpose, but not at a work function in front of her boss...ahem...
2) She has a love/hate relationship with alchohol, and the falling was mostly not due to a slippery floor.

 

[Notanumber]

Is it because some women in the West feel so let down by feminism that they are converting to Islam?

Why do Western Women Convert? | Standpoint

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

This is not in a debate section but I thought it would be better here.

So in today's culture it's sort of taken as a given that attractive women will wear makeup to give the illusion of clear skin, big eyes, red lips and dainty brows; they will have no body hair at all; they will have thin, tiny figures and high, somewhat annoying voices.

The problem is that this is not a woman. Women have body hair; their faces are not perfectly even with flawless skin, huge eyes and red lips; their bodies have some fat and are not tiny.

It seems to me like men, or women who like women sometimes, prefer a woman to look like a little girl. Little girls have hairless bodies, big eyes, smooth skin and petite figures. Not even a teen girl, a little girl. Teen girls have body hair and so-so skin.

It seems to me that the modern image of a beautiful woman is of a little girl with big breasts.

I find this very disturbing.

Just amazed that nobody has pointed out your avatar is a pouting little girl, with no body hair, big eyes etc. Are you saying that is not what you really look like? My avatar is what I look like after not shaving for a couple of days (okay, I'm lying, never been hairy and I don't envy men who feel the need for the 'back, crack and sack' treatment...ouch!)
Personally, I think the female form can be beautiful whether slender, curvy, petite, tall, 'shaved' or 'hairy'. Aren't we talking personal preferences rather than societal dictates? Some women like the hairy Neanderthal look in men, others prefer those groomed to the millimetre. Give me a "girl next door" over a "super model" any day, I find the latter about as arousing as a manikin in a clothes store.
As for deodorants, there are more "natural" products on the market if you are not keen on the chemical composition of the market leaders. I don't care if people use deodorant or not, as long as they don't walk into the room reeking of body odour, tell me who enjoys that? I consider it a part of good etiquette, like not farting in somebody's personal space, have a little consideration for other peoples nasal sensitivities I say.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes but lack of body hair is prepubescent. I had leg, pubic and underarm hair at 13. Below that is a bit *too* youthful, you know?

Absence of hair is more cultural. I meant, a slim figure, clear skin, perky boobs and butt, etc.

 

[Father Heathen]

LOL.

If I had a penny for every fat lumpy female that has laid this silly canard on the table...

Not saying you match the description, I've never seen you, but even still, I have to say.

NO, preferring women that maintain themselves and give a **** about their appearance does not make one a pedophile.

The truth is if someone is lazy about their appearance it is often indicitive of how they carry themselves in other areas of life too.

Health and hygiene is one thing, but cosmetics are purely a cultural thing, as is the expectation to hide one's natural look. As for body weight, another dumb cultural attitude is that many will consider a girl, even one with a balanced BMI, "too fat", because the sickly emaciated look is apparently the desired standard.