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Do man and animal both end up in front of God?Right when they die?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Frank Goad, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Well-Known Member

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    Ecclesiastes 3:20-21.Here it says all of our bodies go to the dust.It also says who can tell were man and animal's spirit end up.In Ecclesiastes 12:7 it says man's spirit goes to God.While in 2 Kings 6:15-17 verse 17.It looks like animals go to God too. Also in Ecclesiastes 3:19 it says both animal and man die.So man is not superior to animals when it comes to death.I think animal and man end up in front of God when they die.What about you?:) If you click on the bible verses it translates them for you.:)

    I thought that in 2 Kings 6:15-17 verse 17 that it was just visions they saw at first.But if they were just visions that wouldn't be very comforting.
     
    #1 Frank Goad, Jun 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
  2. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    It is just as likely that animals, including man,end up before God on death, as that they do not. However it hardly seems a likely process.
    One only has to consider the number of individual forms of life that die every second. To see that there must be another way of judgement.
    I think that the writers in the Bible were equally confused by the numbers involved.
     
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    It would appear that in reading these verses out of context that both man and beast arrive at the same fate upon death.

    I wish I had this knowledge back in third grade when I was arguing with that nun who told me animals have no souls and don't go to Heaven.
     
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  4. allright

    allright Active Member

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    Only man is to be judged

    Animals are sinless so there is no need for them to be judged
     
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  5. 80s fashion girl

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    Humans are below animals IMO.
     
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  6. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    The verse in Eccl about the spirit returning to God is talking about man's breath. God gives us our breath, he can also take it away. We've had other posts on this topic too. And as far as standing before God at death is a wrong application. We are judged when Jesus comes back. There is no life after death, there is no reason for that. Unfortunately, man wants to continue with life after death. People are afraid of death so they want to be comforted with knowing that they will still live. Bible knows nothing of that. In the Beginning with A&E, they were told that they would die if they ate of a certain tree. God did not say that they would live on after death.

    There are so many verses about death, list is too long.
    1. In death you cannot praise God
    2. The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

    These are just two of many verses. This does not tell us that we go somewhere in death. That is why God says that, if you fear God, you do not fear death. Why did Paul always preach about the resurrection in Acts if there is life after death? Let's remember that God did not give us a soul, we are a soul. That's what a soul means. Same with spirit, it means breath. But it can also be written differently. Like mind or life or the way i'm feeling today.

    Plus, man is superior to animals. We are to have dominion over them. Just like Adam had.

    Animals are not equal to us. They have no salvation, we do.
     
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  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    What is the “spirit” that is spoken about here? This is Jewish scripture directed to a Jewish audience. To the ancient Jews, there was no afterlife.....i.e. there was nothing alive when the body died. The “soul” was a living breathing creature and when breathing stopped, that soul died. (Ezekiel 18:4)

    When it says that “the spirit returns to God” it is indicating that the future of that person rests with God in the resurrection. It returns to God because only he can determine if a person’s “spirit” (breath) will be returned when that person is restored to life, which is what resurrection means.

    Unlike humans, animals are designed for a limited lifespan, otherwise there would be overpopulation and all the problems that go with providing food for all of them. Having a natural lifespan, would mean that populations would remain stable. Only humans were promised everlasting life and this was conditional from the get go.....they had to obey God if they wanted to remain living. Death would only come through sin.

    God’s command was for them to “fill the earth”, so when that was accomplished, God does not tell us what he was going to do once that was done. Since he created us to procreate, then perhaps we would then cease reproducing and just manage things on this earth as God first intended. It is after all why God made us in his image....to represent him here as caretakers of the earth, and zoo keepers for the welfare of its creatures.

    What you are reading there is just part of a whole account. Please stop cherry picking verses and putting your own spin n them. You will never arrive at the truth by doing that.

    What Elisha’s attendant saw was not a literal army of angels on literal horses....what he saw represented an army that reflected the war weapons of the day. Horses and war chariots of fire would probably be represented today by an army with missiles, tanks and nuclear weapons.

    Frank, if you want to know what the Bible teaches, then have a proper Bible study. This will stop you jumping from topic to topic searching for confirmation of your own biases. The Bible does not teach what you want to believe.

    I will not respond any further because this roller coaster has got to stop. I am getting off, because it’s beginning to affect me very negatively, answering the same questions over and over.....it is enough now.
    I have given you all the answers many times, but they always disappear, and you are off on this never ending treadmill again. :(
     
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  8. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Well-Known Member

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    Who is it talking about in 2 Kings 6:18?:confused:
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    When you say, you think they end up in front of God, do you mean in heaven? Why? For what purpose?

    I understand that judgment day in the Bibe is a thousand years. The other judgment is a much briefer period, but that is God's day of judgment to execute all the unrighteous.
    Only the righteous will survive. 1 John 2:15-17
    Animals will survive, as in Noah's day, but I believe animals will die, because so much wrong has been done by scientific and other experiments, there may be a need for God to remove them too.
    God decides that.
     
  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Lol your probably right.

    They have far better work environments, no red tape, and take out dining is free.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe horses may well have been used when seeing a conveyance without any other reference. I believe this verse has nothing to do with the death of an animal and I believe animals do not have souls.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the physical bodies have the same fate but animals do not have souls. So you can base your beliefs on wishful thinking or on what the Bible says.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe God's word has more credibility than your opinion.
     
  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    You can base your beliefs on what the Bible says. I’ll base mine on what is evident.
     
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  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Humans are animals. That is not my opinion.
     
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  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you have no evidence.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe humans are animals but not all animals are human.
     
  18. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    What you believe is for you. It has nothing to do with me.
     
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  19. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    This is one of the many corners Christianity has painted itself into, and its own immurement by positing an all-controlling deity that judges, rewards and punishes its creation. This deity is further blamed for being the author of the evil and suffering that exists.

    These inescapable corners and immuring niches would disappear if a page were taken from the Dharmic faiths’ books. But as an anti-proselytization disclaimer (I, like other Dharmics, detest proselytizing and evangelizing) I present that simply as a possible solution... one is of course free to accept it or not.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Someone else's opinion then?

    Animal - Wikipedia
    Historically, Aristotle divided animals into those with blood and those without. Carl Linnaeus created the first hierarchical biological classification for animals in 1758 with his Systema Naturae, which Jean-Baptiste Lamarck expanded into 14 phyla by 1809. In 1874, Ernst Haeckel divided the animal kingdom into the multicellular Metazoa (now synonymous for Animalia) and the Protozoa, single-celled organisms no longer considered animals. In modern times, the biological classification of animals relies on advanced techniques, such as molecular phylogenetics, which are effective at demonstrating the evolutionary relationships between taxa.

    Etymology
    The word "animal" comes from the Latin animalis, meaning having breath, having soul or living being. The biological definition includes all members of the kingdom Animalia. In colloquial usage, the term animal is often used to refer only to nonhuman animals.


    Do you accept being classified as a soul?
    Strong's Greek: 5591. ψυχικός (psuchikos) -- natural, of the soul or mind
    There are human and...what do we call the other category? Animal.
    Then there is, plant life.

    The origin of the word animal
    Latin anima means “breath” or “soul,” and animalis, the adjective that comes from it, means “having breath or soul.” An animal such as a cat or dog can be seen to breathe. Plants breathe too, by taking in certain gases from the atmosphere and releasing others. However, this process cannot be observed by the naked eye. So the noun animal, which comes from animalis, was borrowed from Latin for that group of living beings that breathe visibly.!

    People have been classifying things for centuries.
    Who decides what classification is the sole, correct, infallible one?

    When someone says, one behaves like an animal, or says something like. "Only an animal would do this to a child."
    Do we say that person is ignorant, because they don't know what an animal is?
    They have used a classification. It's not based on a consensus. There is no reason it has to be. Is there?

    People also debate many things, and give various opinions.
    If you ask a room full of scientists if plants breathe, you would get a number of different answers... Yes; No; Not exactly; In a sence; and more.
    So in some of those answers, plants would be classified as a soul, or animal.

    It's, in a sense, an opinion. In fact, yes, it is an opinion. ...but then, not exactly... it's more like a way of classifying, or categorizing for our own usage.
    It's not a matter of one being right, and the other being wrong.
    It's not about evidence either. The evidence says we are souls. Some don't accept that.
     
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