Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?

[Notanumber]

You and I were not present. I am not an Islamic apologist. However here is an excerpt from a talk given by Abdu'l-Baha about Muhammad that provides another perspective and some context to why some Muslims and many in the West believe Muhammad was a butcher:

'For example, a foolish individual once told a Christian priest that the proof of true greatness lies in surpassing bravery and bloodshed, and that in a single day one of the followers of Muḥammad had beheaded a hundred men on the battlefield! This led the priest to surmise that the proof of Muḥammad’s religion consisted in killing, which is nothing but vain imagination. On the contrary, Muḥammad’s military expeditions were always defensive in nature. The clear proof is this: For thirteen years both He and His companions endured in Mecca the most intense persecutions and were the constant target of the darts of hatred. Some of His companions were killed and their possessions pillaged; others forsook their native country and fled to foreign lands. Muḥammad Himself was subjected to the severest persecutions and was obliged, when His enemies resolved to kill Him, to flee Mecca in the middle of the night and emigrate to Medina. Yet even then His enemies did not relent, but pursued the Muslims all the way to Medina and to Abyssinia.

These Arab tribes were most barbarous and rapacious, and in comparison with them the wild and fierce natives of America were the Platos of the age, for they did not bury their children alive as these Arabs did their daughters, claiming this to be an act of honour and taking pride therein. Thus many of the men would threaten their wives, saying, “If a daughter is born to you, I will kill you.” Even to the present day the Arabs dread having daughters.'

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

Look at this short video.

 

[Rival]

Indeed, a good number of Qur’ānic pericopes look like Arabic ingenious patchworks of Biblical and para- Biblical texts, designed to comment passages or aspects of the Scripture, whereas others look like Arabic translations of liturgical formulas.

Have you anymore information about this? Not to risk derailing the thread, maybe you could message me or comment on my profile

 

[Muffled]

I don't recollect Mohammed as ever being referred to as perfect so why would one follow him?

I doubt that the extremists give a hoot for either Mohammed or the Qu'ran except to use them as a justification for their own evil agenda.

 

[Muffled]

But even Christ said to bring those who refuse to allow him to reign over them before him and slay them in front of them. (Luke 19:27)

I find it very hypocritical to adhere to ine Abrahamic religion while judging another. They all have their viciousness.

I believe however that is not a call for Christians to act that way. The context is that Jesus will return and slay those who are not in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Muffled]

Some from the Hadith's

I believe Hadiths are totally unreliable.

 

[Notanumber]

I don't recollect Mohammed as ever being referred to as perfect so why would one follow him?

I doubt that the extremists give a hoot for either Mohammed or the Qu'ran except to use them as a justification for their own evil agenda.

What is their agenda if it is not Islamic?

 

[J2hapydna]

I don't recollect Mohammed as ever being referred to as perfect so why would one follow him?

I doubt that the extremists give a hoot for either Mohammed or the Qu'ran except to use them as a justification for their own evil agenda.

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)

 

[J2hapydna]

Have you anymore information about this? Not to risk derailing the thread, maybe you could message me or comment on my profile

So much, indeed, was Muhammad indebted to the Jews for a great portion of his teaching on this and other subjects that the Qur'an has been described as a compendium of Talmudic Judaism. (Blair, The Sources of Islam, p. 55).


One finds many of the Old Testament stories of the prophets reproduced in the Qur'an, sometimes in a precis form where the Qur'anic record is a faithful, though often vague, summary of the original Biblical narrative (e.g. the story of Jonah in Surah 37.139-148). On other occasions the Qur'anic narratives contain elements of Biblical truths confounded with folklore and fables extracted from the Talmud and in some cases (such as the story of Abraham and the idols which we shall presently consider) the sources are entirely Midrashic/Haggadic and are accordingly purely fictitious. This accounts for the seeming discrepancies between the stories of the Bible and the Koranic version of the same narratives. However, in relating the Koranic version of the biblical story to the Aggadic source as indicated in our study, the discrepancies almost entirely disappear. For, astonishingly enough, the biblical narratives are reproduced in the Koran in true Aggadic cloak. (Katsh, Judaism in Islam, p. xvii)."

 

[Spiderman]

What bothers me about Muhammad is he cut heads and hands off and married a six year old girl. He was a pedophile...other than that I consider him a great man

 

[J2hapydna]

What bothers me about Muhammad is he cut heads and hands off and married a six year old girl. He was a pedophile...other than that I consider him a great man

You are right the Arab historians who wrote in the age of the Umayyads and later, describe stories in which MP inflicted unspeakable cruelties on innocent people for not following his religion.

So the question is who were the Umayyads? How well did they understand MP and his message? Were they psychopathic liars who would have distorted the truth about MP to find religious cover for their own criminal behaviors? I think there is considerable secular evidence that suggests they were psychopathic. If you wish I will share this evidence with you later. Just let me know

For now, let's take the verse you quoted about crucifying those who insult the prophet and Allah and chopping off their opposite foot and hand. I would think this type of punishment would have be reserved for the type of person who didn't just refuse to adopt Islam, but expressed animosity towards MP. It would be for not just those who verbally assaulted him, but also perhaps tried to physically assault and torment MP. Perhaps, not just those who physically tormented him, but also perhaps, fought wars against MP. Also, for not just those who fought wars against MP but also tried to personally kill and perhaps hired assassins to target kill MP in those wars. I think most people will agree that if such a person was caught, he would probably be killed


However, let's assume that he not just hired assassins in war but also organized a group of people to assassinate MP in peace time. Also, not just organized a group but also perhps tried to personally track down and kill MP. I think at this point most people would agree that if there was such a person who had tried to do these things to MP, the leader of his city, that he would be justified in putting to death such a person.

Some people may say, it would be okay to put to death, but not a painful death of crucifixion and chopping off hand and foot. That would be barbaric.

Well, let me tell you that Muawiya and his father Abu Sufiyan were guilty of all the above crimes according to their own historians. So did MP put them to death or cleaning the toilets for the rest of their lives? The answer is, no. The man forgave them. Later, Muawiya would rise to become leader of the Empire. In fact Muawiya's son Caliph Yazid, went down in history as the person who killed over a thousand companions of the prophet in Madina; and killed the grandson of MP.

So it is hard for me to believe that if the prophet didn't kill this cruel father and son duo after they were captured in a war that he was killing and torturing anyone. At the very least this proves that just because the Koran says something is a punishment for a certain crime it doesn't mean it has to be executed. Clearly MP forgave this duo and didn't punish them with sentences that the Koran stipulated.

 

[Sabour]

Quran 5:33 Indeed, the punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and who go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land. That is a disgrace for them in this life, and in the life to come theirs will be a terrible punishment.

As a muslim, I think my answer to the question you are posing is clear, otherwise I wouldn't have been still a muslim.

ِِAs for the verse you quoted, there are plenty other verses that one can quote that seem to be violent. There are also many more that can be quoted that seem to be peaceful.

For us, Quraan is the Word of God revealed to our prophet Muhammad and Islam is the way we are supposed to live our life. Everything we do in our daily life, let it be in the house or at the workplace, must be supported by the Quraan or the life of the prophet. For this reason, cutting one or few verses out of the Quraan (let it be any verse) and drawing conclusions out of them is misleading and doesn't do Islam justice.

Some scholars say that the last verse of the quraan that was revealed to our prophet was

5:3
Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


This means that the "deen" or as we call in English "religion" was not completed except with the revelation of the last verse. Whoever wants to follow Islam must follow all the Quraan. ( We are talking about a complete way of life) This complete way of life can't be followed by cutting one verse out of the Quraan and saying this is the islaminc stance towards that subject. Actually, some verses in the Quraan explain and give context to other verses.

To be direct more direct in my answer, there are general conditions and rules given for combating (self defense) by the Quraan in many different verses. These rules and conditions also apply to the verse you are quoting.