Do creationists accept biology?

[Nimos]

Yes, it is related. But the resting of those within the Law Covenant was to desist or refrain from work that would take them away from reflecting upon Jehovah's wondrous works and information given to the Israelites. God's rest is entailed with his resting from his creative works. The 7th day is not described as having a beginning (evening) and ending (the following evening).

And is that especially important, that it doesn't? im not really following you.

 

[YoursTrue]

And is that especially important, that it doesn't? im not really following you.

It is not declared that the seventh day had an evening and a morning. Very different from the others. Remember, a "day" in that time period for the Hebrews started in the evening. If you're thinking about a 24 hour period. From evening to the next evening is a "day." The 7th day is different from the other days.

 

[Nimos]

It is not declared that the seventh day had an evening and a morning. Very different from the others. Remember, a "day" in that time period for the Hebrews started in the evening. If you're thinking about a 24 hour period. From evening to the next evening is a "day." The 7th day is different from the other days.

Well I think that depends how you read it. It is true that it doesn't explicitly say that there were an evening and then a morning. But whether that means that it then means something else from the rest of them, im not so sure. But you might be right.

Genesis 2:1-3
1 - Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 - And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
3 - So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

He "finished" his work on the seventh day, which would be difficult to do, if it is still going on. If what you mean is that the seventh day is still in progress?

 

[YoursTrue]

Well I think that depends how you read it. It is true that it doesn't explicitly say that there were an evening and then a morning. But whether that means that it then means something else from the rest of them, im not so sure. But you might be right.

Genesis 2:1-3
1 - Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 - And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
3 - So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

He "finished" his work on the seventh day, which would be difficult to do, if it is still going on. If what you mean is that the seventh day is still in progress?

The point is God rested from his creative works, including Adam and Eve. He banished them from the garden of Eden. It's not like he took a vacation on that day. In fact, thinking more about it, the events in the garden could not have reasonably occurred in one 24 hour day.

 

[Bear Wild]

The point is God rested from his creative works, including Adam and Eve. He banished them from the garden of Eden. It's not like he took a vacation on that day. In fact, thinking more about it, the events in the garden could not have reasonably occurred in one 24 hour day.

Why even argue about myth? It is not how our world came to be. Trying to interpret the events in the garden is pure fantasy and has no meaning on what happened on earth.

 

[Nimos]

The point is God rested from his creative works, including Adam and Eve. He banished them from the garden of Eden. It's not like he took a vacation on that day. In fact, thinking more about it, the events in the garden could not have reasonably occurred in one 24 hour day.

No i would not expect that to be the case, my understanding from reading the story, is that this is something that happened well after the 7th day, at some unspecified day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well I think that depends how you read it. It is true that it doesn't explicitly say that there were an evening and then a morning. But whether that means that it then means something else from the rest of them, im not so sure. But you might be right.

Genesis 2:1-3
1 - Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 - And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
3 - So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

He "finished" his work on the seventh day, which would be difficult to do, if it is still going on. If what you mean is that the seventh day is still in progress?

No i would not expect that to be the case, my understanding from reading the story, is that this is something that happened well after the 7th day, at some unspecified day.

The seventh day is not said to have an evening followed by morning as the seventh day. I'll mention that because every other day has a beginning (evening) and an end (morning). And, at a certain point, Adam and Eve sinned. This obviously must have been on the seventh day, since everything that God had made was declared as very good by that time. But time surely had to pass on that seventh day until it happened and what followed. Plus again -- no closure to that day. I'll get back to this because there are some points I have to go over. Have a good night, and a good day!

 

[Nimos]

The seventh day is not said to have an evening followed by morning as the seventh day. I'll mention that because every other day has a beginning (evening) and an end (morning). And, at a certain point, Adam and Eve sinned. This obviously must have been on the seventh day, since everything that God had made was declared as very good by that time. But time surely had to pass on that seventh day until it happened and what followed. Plus again -- no closure to that day. I'll get back to this because there are some points I have to go over. Have a good night, and a good day!

Ill wait for your explanation then, before commenting.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ill wait for your explanation then, before commenting.

Hi. Foregoing the comment on my last post, I was re-reading your post and I realized that by the "seventh day," it doesn't say, "on the next day" after the seventh day. Every other day says evening and morning for that day. But by the seventh day, when apparently Adam and Eve sinned, it doesn't say, "and the next day" this is what happened. So there were six days of creation. Genesis 1:31 says, "Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day." So everything God made was very good. By the end of the sixth day. By the way, Nimos, I am enjoying our conversation. It gives me time to think and go over some important things. Thanks!

 

[Nimos]

Hi. Foregoing the comment on my last post, I was re-reading your post and I realized that by the "seventh day," it doesn't say, "on the next day" after the seventh day. Every other day says evening and morning for that day. But by the seventh day, when apparently Adam and Eve sinned, it doesn't say, "and the next day" this is what happened. So there were six days of creation. Genesis 1:31 says, "Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day." So everything God made was very good. By the end of the sixth day. By the way, Nimos, I am enjoying our conversation. It gives me time to think and go over some important things. Thanks!

Sure no problem

My personal understanding of the text is that Adam and Eve did not sin on the seventh day, but at an unspecified day after the seventh day. Maybe im wrong, but that is the impression I get when I read the story.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure no problem

My personal understanding of the text is that Adam and Eve did not sin on the seventh day, but at an unspecified day after the seventh day. Maybe im wrong, but that is the impression I get when I read the story.

And that may be for many. But Paul interestingly said the rebellious Israelites did not enter into God's rest.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure no problem

My personal understanding of the text is that Adam and Eve did not sin on the seventh day, but at an unspecified day after the seventh day. Maybe im wrong, but that is the impression I get when I read the story.

Don't you find it interesting that the scripture does not say "and on the NEXT DAY," or on a later day after the seventh day, Adam and Eve were tempted and succumbed? I see each creative day now as an indeterminate but specific time of beginning and end, certainly for the first six days. Since the day starts with evening, well, it's a different way of counting from weeks now and hours and solar days.

 

[Nimos]

Don't you find it interesting that the scripture does not say "and on the NEXT DAY," or on a later day after the seventh day, Adam and Eve were tempted and succumbed? I see each creative day now as an indeterminate but specific time of beginning and end, certainly for the first six days. Since the day starts with evening, well, it's a different way of counting from weeks now and hours and solar days.

Honestly and maybe not all that surprising I think the writers and probably also people knew or at least had an idea that everything did not come into existences at the same time.

Just like we today, ask the question "What came first the chicken or the egg?" I think they would have wondered the same, people weren't stupid back then. But they had no real way of answering such question. Today we can answer this through evolution, but to them it have probably been a mystery of how that could be possible, therefore God must have created everything in their complete form, which makes perfect sense if you are a person during that time period and the word evolution doesn't even exist.

But you can take this further assuming we lived at that time... you might wonder the following: "For the Goat to live it need to eat grass, now the grass doesn't eat anything, but grow on soil and to grow it needs water." So logically it would make sense, if the soil or water came first, then the grass and then the goat. Which is exactly what we read in Genesis, first the water, then the dry land, then vegetation, then light (Sun / moon) and then the animals.

Maybe they thought that if God made it like that, then they had a rather logical explanation of how things were made. At least to me that sound plausible for them to draw such conclusions. So by splitting the creation into days it helps them set the order in which God created things, rather than just have one verse saying, "God created everything as he saw fit.... Adam and Eve ate a fruit..."

 

[YoursTrue]

Honestly and maybe not all that surprising I think the writers and probably also people knew or at least had an idea that everything did not come into existences at the same time.

Just like we today, ask the question "What came first the chicken or the egg?" I think they would have wondered the same, people weren't stupid back then. But they had no real way of answering such question. Today we can answer this through evolution, but to them it have probably been a mystery of how that could be possible, therefore God must have created everything in their complete form, which makes perfect sense if you are a person during that time period and the word evolution doesn't even exist.

But you can take this further assuming we lived at that time... you might wonder the following: "For the Goat to live it need to eat grass, now the grass doesn't eat anything, but grow on soil and to grow it needs water." So logically it would make sense, if the soil or water came first, then the grass and then the goat. Which is exactly what we read in Genesis, first the water, then the dry land, then vegetation, then light (Sun / moon) and then the animals.

Maybe they thought that if God made it like that, then they had a rather logical explanation of how things were made. At least to me that sound plausible for them to draw such conclusions. So by splitting the creation into days it helps them set the order in which God created things, rather than just have one verse saying, "God created everything as he saw fit.... Adam and Eve ate a fruit..."

Thank you for answering -- I got a better picture now of what you believe. And, of course, since you believe in evolution rather than an intelligent creative force behind life, it's kind of hard for me to understand anyway why you might even think that each day of creation in Genesis was a 24-hour period of time. But anyway -- have a nice evening, it has been nice talking with you.

 

[gnostic]

I think you missed the point. While I cannot explain everything about creation, and neither can scientists who postulate evolution explain everything about that belief, I will tell you that there is no reason for me not to believe that God was not the One who formed the beginning of life on earth.

With Genesis saying God instantly and magically turning dust into a living, adult human male...it can be explained that creation of Adam could never happen in the way it was narrated.

It isn’t natural, and it is impossible as well as improbable.

This dust-turn-human is nothing more than a myth.

But with myths anything is possible as long as you believe in them.

Can you really turn dust into human, overnight?

 

[Nimos]

Thank you for answering -- I got a better picture now of what you believe. And, of course, since you believe in evolution rather than an intelligent creative force behind life, it's kind of hard for me to understand anyway why you might even think that each day of creation in Genesis was a 24-hour period of time. But anyway -- have a nice evening, it has been nice talking with you.

You too

The reason I believe that we are talking about what we would normally refer to a day, is because the text's description of a day cycle is the same as what we refer to it as today, the sun comes up, goes down and that is one day. It is even written in the text.

Genesis 1:5
5 - God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

I really don't think this is meant to be understood any other way. Whether the day in their time went from evening to evening, is not really important in this regard. Because we are not talking about a day here that is 1000s or millions of years, or whatever some people try to explain it to be. And as I see it, it is simply a way for modern people to try to make the text fit what science tells us. But could you travel back in time and ask a person living there, what exactly they meant. Then I think you would get an answer that it was one day as we know it.

If it ain't clear, im an atheist so I have nothing to gain or loose, in regards to whether it is millions of years or simply one day. Im just giving my view on how I understand the text and how I think they meant it to be understood.

 

[gnostic]

It is not declared that the seventh day had an evening and a morning. Very different from the others. Remember, a "day" in that time period for the Hebrews started in the evening. If you're thinking about a 24 hour period. From evening to the next evening is a "day." The 7th day is different from the other days.

Wow.

You are deflecting the reality and the context of Genesis 1, trying to make day into any length of time, you want.

But you are wrong, or only partially right.

A Jewish day is not measure of 24 hour or at midnight, but it is also not just measured from evening to evening.

More precisely, a Jewish day start a new day at sunset, so sunset-to-sunset.

Evening can be vague because evening can be any time after sunset.

And a day would include a cycle of both evening and morning, whether it start at sunset, midnight or sunrise. It doesn’t matter because a cycle of evening and morning still mean a day.

No, YoursTrue. You are simply making excuses and making half-truth assertions.

But let say, for instant a devout Jewish family decided to move and live in town in northern part of Scandinavia, like the Arctic region, where they experience weeks of long day and no night, or weeks of long night and no daylight?

How would these Jews measure a Jewish day with weeks of no sunset?

Doesn’t this whole custom to measure day, go out the proverbial window?

 

[YoursTrue]

You too

The reason I believe that we are talking about what we would normally refer to a day, is because the text's description of a day cycle is the same as what we refer to it as today, the sun comes up, goes down and that is one day. It is even written in the text.

Genesis 1:5
5 - God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

I really don't think this is meant to be understood any other way. Whether the day in their time went from evening to evening, is not really important in this regard. Because we are not talking about a day here that is 1000s or millions of years, or whatever some people try to explain it to be. And as I see it, it is simply a way for modern people to try to make the text fit what science tells us. But could you travel back in time and ask a person living there, what exactly they meant. Then I think you would get an answer that it was one day as we know it.

If it ain't clear, im an atheist so I have nothing to gain or loose, in regards to whether it is millions of years or simply one day. Im just giving my view on how I understand the text and how I think they meant it to be understood.

Oh, thanks for mentioning you're an atheist. And I appreciate you're looking at the text. So let's be honest -- there WERE no people living until the what? the sixth day? A 'day' to most westerners usually means the time from midnight to midnight. Evening happens before then. Looking it over (again...), I see that 'day' doesn't always mean a 24-hour period. For instance, right at the beginning it says:
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”
So what are we to understand from this? That God caused light to shine, would you agree? He made light. But THEN -- He separated light from -- darkness. That was on the first "day."
"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."
So, of course, whether it's a small thing or a big thing, God called the light "day," and the darkness "night." The word day therefore is clearly flexible.
"God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” On the first "day," God said "Let there be light." Light? Light was to happen on the "first day"?? Then He saw the light was good, and He separated it from the darkness. So what do you gather from this? Was there darkness after or before He let there be light? Because -- it says He separated the light from the darkness. And called the light DAY, but the darkness NIGHT. And this all was the first "DAY..." OK, I think we covered some of that. Not all are 24-hour day believers re: the creative days.
Later...and have a good night.

 

[YoursTrue]

You too

The reason I believe that we are talking about what we would normally refer to a day, is because the text's description of a day cycle is the same as what we refer to it as today, the sun comes up, goes down and that is one day. It is even written in the text.

Genesis 1:5
5 - God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

I really don't think this is meant to be understood any other way. Whether the day in their time went from evening to evening, is not really important in this regard. Because we are not talking about a day here that is 1000s or millions of years, or whatever some people try to explain it to be. And as I see it, it is simply a way for modern people to try to make the text fit what science tells us. But could you travel back in time and ask a person living there, what exactly they meant. Then I think you would get an answer that it was one day as we know it.

If it ain't clear, im an atheist so I have nothing to gain or loose, in regards to whether it is millions of years or simply one day. Im just giving my view on how I understand the text and how I think they meant it to be understood.

Comparing the usages of the word day, both in and out of the scriptures, the planting of trees, continuance of animals, etc., would be virtually impossible in a 24-hour period. The word day there logically has to be interpreted as an indeterminate but lengthy enough period of time. And again, we haven't reached in our discussion much about God's rest day. Hopefully, we shall. Another little piece of information is:
The giant flaming star in the sky (the sun) rotates, but moves at a much slower pace than the Earth.
It takes 24 hours for the Earth to make a full rotation, but since the sun isn't a solid object like a planet, its rotation is harder to pinpoint.
So a day in various parts of the universe does not have to equal a 24-hour period as we know it. But that's not really the point. The point is that the word for day in the Hebrew doesn't have to mean a 24-hour day. And the 7th day has no closure in the creation account, many people don't pay attention to that. Again, have a good night. And, of course, a good day tomorrow.

 

[gnostic]

The point is God rested from his creative works, including Adam and Eve. He banished them from the garden of Eden. It's not like he took a vacation on that day. In fact, thinking more about it, the events in the garden could not have reasonably occurred in one 24 hour day.

You are assuming that Genesis 2 with Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden is a continuation of 6-day creation in Genesis 1.

Yes, Genesis 2 completed 6-day with the 7th day in the 3 verses of Genesis 2 (2:1-3).

But starting in verse 2:4, it go on to say that no plants/vegetation (2:5) were created until Adam was created from dust (2:7). And it is only AFTER god created man from dust, that he created vegetation within the Garden of Eden (2:8-17), including the Tree of Knowledge (2:17).

This version of creation is in contradiction of 3rd day of creation (creation of dry lands and vegetation, 1:9-13) and 6th day (creation of humans, 1:26-27).

The orders of creation are different, hence 2 different creation stories.