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Do Christian Missionaries use the tactic of Pretending to be Muslim to convert Them?

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I do not accept your comment, as you had your full right and freedom to search for the original video and check for yourself if he was quoted out of context or not. You made accusations about the video without any prove. The original clip is over 1 hour video, where JAY SMITH speaks about this practice all along, you don't expect the video makers to put the whole 1hour video, do you?
Google search says Jay Smith is a Christian evangelist and apologist. Both times in the video he is cut off when the context could have saved him, so the video is useless. It doesn't show what it claims. What he admits to in this video is learning to dress like other people in the region and wear a beard in a country where all men wear beards.
 

Sara Thinks

Member
Google search says Jay Smith is a Christian evangelist and apologist. Both times in the video he is cut off when the context could have saved him, so the video is useless. It doesn't show what it claims. What he admits to in this video is learning to dress like other people in the region and wear a beard in a country where all men wear beards.
I have asked you before and am asking you again to show me the context, you claim its taken out of context, so prove it now, why are you beating around the bushes?
secondly answer to me, has Jay smith participated in this deceptive method or not?
I doubt if you found the original video, or watched it but you are just blindly defending someone for the sake of it!
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I have asked you before and am asking you again to show me the context, you claim its taken out of context, so prove it now, why are you beating around the bushes?
I gave the time stamps.

secondly answer to me, has Jay smith participated in this deceptive method or not?
I doubt if you found the original video, or watched it but you are just blindly defending someone for the sake of it!
I am defending someone who has been taken out of context. Its too easy to misrepresent people that way. I don't need the original video to see that.
 
Last edited:

Sara Thinks

Member
I gave the time stamps.

I am defending someone who has been taken out of context. Its too easy to misrepresent people that way. I don't need the original video to see that.
its a waste of time talking to you, you didn't answer any of my questions, you just blankly making statements, i asked you give the context, meaning..if the video had manipulated it, which they didnt, what is the real and true context? but you are responding by saying you gave time stamps.lol
And where are the answers to these two questions:
has Jay smith participated in this deceptive method or not?
Its evident you are a blind follower, the video i posted was enough for people to understand it hasn't been taken out of context!
you cannot provide the real context and you are saying jay smith has been taken out of context!
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
its a waste of time talking to you, you didn't answer any of my questions, you just blankly making statements, i asked you give the context, meaning..if the video had manipulated it, which they didnt, what is the real and true context? but you are responding by saying you gave time stamps.lol
And where are the answers to these two questions:
has Jay smith participated in this deceptive method or not?
Its evident you are a blind follower, the video i posted was enough for people to understand it hasn't been taken out of context!
you cannot provide the real context and you are saying jay smith has been taken out of context!
The video you posted removed the context by cutting him off while he was talking. Then you asked everyone to make judgments about him based upon the video. That's not fair.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
The video you posted removed the context by cutting him off while he was talking. Then you asked everyone to make judgments about him based upon the video. That's not fair.

I agree, so I did some research. There appears to be a fairly well defined structure for these type of ministry operations, with the different methods of mission work having different denotions.

C5 seems to refer to the type of work mentioned in the OP. Based on the article I'm linking to (which Jay Smith wrote) he appears to have decided this type of missionary work is counterproductive and could be seen as deceiptful.

http://i2ministries.org/2013/06/jay-smiths-assessment-of-insider-movements-c5-missions-strategies/

Ironically, then, the OP appears to have a point, but is presenting someone who has decided this work shouldn't be done as someone who does it.
In any case, the more general questions about this type of evangelical Christianity and their methods seems valid.

Based on some things I saw firsthand in Papua New Guinea, I'm not surprised.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
thank you very much, many other also have had experience with "such christian missionaries"
when you mentioned rice Christians, does it mean like missionaries who travel around to refugee camps or natural disaster stricken countries and provide food and shelter AND PREACH CHRISTIANITY, thus converting the poor, unfortunate people?

If memory serves me right, missionaries in China used rice as a tool to convert the people.
That was Not preaching or teaching genuine 1st-century Christianity to the people.
They were using physical food (rice) as a tool instead of biblical spiritual food to make converts.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I agree, so I did some research. There appears to be a fairly well defined structure for these type of ministry operations, with the different methods of mission work having different denotions.
.

We can also research the Bible (Acts of the Apostles 17:11), and in Scripture we find Jesus illustration about the neighbolry good Samaritan doing good on a one-on-one basis as his circumstances allowed. Not building hospitals, etc. but doing what one can do one-on-one.- Luke 10:30-37

Jesus did recommend missionaries -> Mark 10:29-30 - ( the word ' wife' is a KJV add on )
But, those missionaries ( like the apostle Paul ) would be self supporting - Acts of the Apostles 18:3
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Jay smith, is a famous christian apologists, who have been debating Muslims all around the world on vast topics about Islam.
He has spoken of this practice " disguising as Muslims" to bring people closer to Christianity!
watch the video where he speaks of different classes, methods of this tactic.


I want you all to respond firstly in a word/phrase response to this practice of Christians after you have watched the video, afterward you can give your explanation (if it this malpractice seems right to you, or evil , how should Muslims respond, have you any experience with such kind of people or have you (if christian) been part of this practice, and have left it).

Dishonest tactic with horrible excuses to cover for their dishonestly. However I would point out that I never expected honestly from missionaries as they often use a just cause as a facade to convert people. They exploit the hardships of people to gain that "foot in the door"
 
Unfortunately, it tends to be the most unpleasant forms of the religions that are the most aggressive proselytisers.

US style Evangelical Protestants and Gulf style Salafis frequently use underhand tactics. Financial incentives, and free children's education (more indoctrination than education) are the most common underhand tactics. Also encouraging minors to proselytise to their friends. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 'covert' attempts at proselytisiation also.

The problem is that these methods create tensions, sometimes violent, between religious communities that previously coexisted pretty well by upsetting the social balance. Zealots tend not to concern themselves with such factors though, being far too concerned with souls to think about the here and now.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Deceit is a naturally occurring thing, foremost. There isn't a single person alive who hasn't, and is not inclined to use it.

Christians also cannot discount this method, because it has precedent with both YHVH and Jesus.

Muslims will often view Jesus and other prophets as Muslims. While believing that you are Muslim, being Muslim, and being viewed as Muslim are all different, finding and exploiting common ground is the only means of conversion.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Deceit is a naturally occurring thing, foremost. There isn't a single person alive who hasn't, and is not inclined to use it.
Christians also cannot discount this method, because it has precedent with both YHVH and Jesus.

Where in Scripture does deceit have precedent with both Jehovah and Jesus ?
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Where in Scripture does deceit have precedent with both Jehovah and Jesus ?

Most notably the command to sacrifice Isaac. Another example would be the commission of false prophets and deceiving spirits (e.g. Ahab).

One of Jesus' reason for speaking in parables was to deceive. He also commanded followers to carry swords, not to use in combat, but for the purpose of deceiving combatants.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Most notably the command to sacrifice Isaac. Another example would be the commission of false prophets and deceiving spirits (e.g. Ahab).
One of Jesus' reason for speaking in parables was to deceive. He also commanded followers to carry swords, not to use in combat, but for the purpose of deceiving combatants.

Didn't Jesus heal the soldiers ear, showing Now was the starting time to lay down the sword ?
- Matthew 26:51-53; Revelation 13:10
What was Jesus' New commandment at John 13:34-35 but to have self-sacrificing love for others as he had.
So, the purpose of carrying swords was to show everyone they would Not use them.
Weapons were Now going to be spiritual weapons for genuine ' wheat ' Christians - 2 Corinthians 10:4
True Christians would put on ' spiritual armor ' - Ephesians 6:11-17 - Not literal armor.

The purpose of Jesus' parables (illustrations) was so those illustrations would remain vivid in people's minds.
Jesus painted word pictures in people's minds so they could more easily recall the illustrations.
What do you find deceiving about Jesus' Sermon on the Mount ?

Was it deceit for God to ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac because Abraham and Isaac both knew the promised ' seed ' (offspring) would come through Isaac. Isaac would have to be alive in order to produce offspring.
So, they were demonstrating their confidence in an earthly resurrection. Abraham knew Isaac would be brought back to life. Their actions show us how real the resurrection was to them.

As far as Ahab and commissioned false prophets could you please post what passages you have in mind ?
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Didn't Jesus heal the soldiers ear, showing Now was the starting time to lay down the sword ?
- Matthew 26:51-53; Revelation 13:10
What was Jesus' New commandment at John 13:34-35 but to have self-sacrificing love for others as he had.
So, the purpose of carrying swords was to show everyone they would Not use them.
Weapons were Now going to be spiritual weapons for genuine ' wheat ' Christians - 2 Corinthians 10:4
True Christians would put on ' spiritual armor ' - Ephesians 6:11-17 - Not literal armor.


I'll address your first question:

Cain and Abel. Genesis 9:6. Self-sacrificing love is not a new lesson or command, but a new understanding for them already deceived alongside Cain's shame and contempt.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I'll address your first question:
Cain and Abel. Genesis 9:6. Self-sacrificing love is not a new lesson or command, but a new understanding for them already deceived alongside Cain's shame and contempt.

The Constitution of the Mosaic Law was still in effect in Jesus' day.
The Israelites went to war (and Not always in righteous warfare )
Starting with Pentecost the Christian congregation was born.
So, since Pentecost the followers of Jesus would Not go to any war - 2 Corinthians 10:4; Ephesians 6:11-17
They obey Jesus' command to lay down the sword -> Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10
Under the Law, one was to love neighbor as one's self. ( equal to one's self )
Jesus' NEW commandment of self-sacrificing love meant now love neighbor 'more' than self. - John 13:34-35
 

Sara Thinks

Member
I agree, so I did some research. There appears to be a fairly well defined structure for these type of ministry operations, with the different methods of mission work having different denotions.

C5 seems to refer to the type of work mentioned in the OP. Based on the article I'm linking to (which Jay Smith wrote) he appears to have decided this type of missionary work is counterproductive and could be seen as deceiptful.

http://i2ministries.org/2013/06/jay-smiths-assessment-of-insider-movements-c5-missions-strategies/

Ironically, then, the OP appears to have a point, but is presenting someone who has decided this work shouldn't be done as someone who does it.
In any case, the more general questions about this type of evangelical Christianity and their methods seems valid.

Based on some things I saw firsthand in Papua New Guinea, I'm not surprised.

I have watched both the videos and have found the video of ‘Truth Shall Prevail’ excellent, manifest and honest. The video makers haven’t taken parts of the ”legacy” video out of context or manipulated it.
“Contextualization or “Insider movement” or “Tenet camouflage” can never be justified by saying “respecting their customs and learning the language in order to communicate …etc.”
Learning the language of people in order to propagate can be acceptable, and there is no scrutiny for that. BUT that is not what the “INSIDER MOVEMENT” is about or what Jay Smith did or other Christian Missionaries are doing. An honest Christian preacher WOULDN’T change HIS NAME TO ARABIC, GROW BEARD LIKE MUSLIMS, and PRAY LIKE MUSLIMS IN THE MOSQUES but rather they would just be Christians openly preaching the bible! This is an extremely evil method and a crime which should be highly scrutinized and this video has done a perfect job in doing so!
 

Sara Thinks

Member
If memory serves me right, missionaries in China used rice as a tool to convert the people.
That was Not preaching or teaching genuine 1st-century Christianity to the people.
They were using physical food (rice) as a tool instead of biblical spiritual food to make converts.
especially in the refugee camps, natural disaster striken areas!
 

Kirran

Premium Member
I have watched both the videos and have found the video of ‘Truth Shall Prevail’ excellent, manifest and honest. The video makers haven’t taken parts of the ”legacy” video out of context or manipulated it.
“Contextualization or “Insider movement” or “Tenet camouflage” can never be justified by saying “respecting their customs and learning the language in order to communicate …etc.”
Learning the language of people in order to propagate can be acceptable, and there is no scrutiny for that. BUT that is not what the “INSIDER MOVEMENT” is about or what Jay Smith did or other Christian Missionaries are doing. An honest Christian preacher WOULDN’T change HIS NAME TO ARABIC, GROW BEARD LIKE MUSLIMS, and PRAY LIKE MUSLIMS IN THE MOSQUES but rather they would just be Christians openly preaching the bible! This is an extremely evil method and a crime which should be highly scrutinized and this video has done a perfect job in doing so!

If you understood lewisnotmiller's post, you'd realise that Jay Smith explicitly disowns such practices.
 
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