Do babies deserve hell?

[Green Gaia]

Some things said this thread, I can't respond to them there, so I hope they don't mind me starting a new thread so that I and others can ask questions as well.

Do tiny babies also deserve hell? What have they done to deserve that?

The bottom line...we can't know what their fate is. It's not in our hands. It's in God's. God didn't provide any of us with the answers to this question.

I find the belief that God won't let us know that babies will be spared eternal torment to be horrendous and borderline psychological abuse for mothers who believe in Heaven and Hell and have lost infants and children. Why wouldn't God give mothers the comfort to know that the little one they lost is safe in Heaven? How can God be so cruel?

I know, I hear you saying, but Amy you don't believe in these things anyway, why do you care? You're right I don't believe in the vengeful, jealous, wrathful Christian God and I don't believe in an afterlife based on reward and punishment or on the whim of God. But I feel I must say something when I see a belief being promoted that is potentially so harmful to anyone who does believe and has lost a child.

Imagine a woman, a believer, who has just lost her infant, she goes to her pastor and pleads, "Please tell me my baby is safe with Jesus in Heaven!" Her pastor responds, "I'm sorry we just can't know for sure." What extra torment does that put on that poor woman! How do you justify this form of torture?

 

[Katzpur]

Some things said this thread, I can't respond to them there, so I hope they don't mind me starting a new thread so that I and others can ask questions as well.
I find the belief that God won't let us know that babies will be spared eternal torment to be horrendous and borderline psychological abuse for mothers who believe in Heaven and Hell and have lost infants and children. Why wouldn't God give mothers the comfort to know that the little one they lost is safe in Heaven? How can God be so cruel?

Hi, Amy.

I'm glad you started this thread (and thanks a bunch for the frubals!). Time after time, Jesus referred to little children as being pure and said of them, "of such is the kingdom of heaven." Like you, I cannot conceive of a God who would condemn an innocent child to an eternity in Hell. Furthermore, I can't conceive of being able to worship such a God.

 

[ChrisP]

If a baby is not capable of repentance in an Abrahamic sense I can see no reason why they would be condemned. This is pertaining to the knowledge of the nature of good and evil, and as has been outlined in other threads, we are not born knowing or understanding this human concept.

Otherwise I entirely agree with Amy that this is bordering on psychological abuse of bereved parents.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.

>Do babies deserve hell?

I find this entire thread topic ridiculous given that Ezekiel 18 makes abundantly clear that sin is NOT inherited, and that therefore babies are entirely innocent!

Just the facts.

Bruce

 

[Katzpur]

Greetings.

>Do babies deserve hell?

I find this entire thread topic ridiculous given that Ezekiel 18 makes abundantly clear that sin is NOT inherited, and that therefore babies are entirely innocent!

Just the facts.

Bruce

I couldn't agree more with your perspective on sin. However, given the fact that many Christians do believe that if you, as a member of the Baha'i Faith, had a child who died as a baby, that baby would go to Hell. Therefore, perhaps your statement that this is a ridiculous topic for discussion is a bit premature. If we all believed alike and all interpreted the scriptures in the same way, then a discussion of this topic would be ridiculous.

 

[dawny0826]

I find the belief that God won't let us know that babies will be spared eternal torment to be horrendous and borderline psychological abuse for mothers who believe in Heaven and Hell and have lost infants and children. Why wouldn't God give mothers the comfort to know that the little one they lost is safe in Heaven? How can God be so cruel?

Truthfully, I never worried about the salvation of my babies. I believed even before I was a devoted Christian that God had their little lives in His hands. And I believed that they would be okay in faith.

There was no torment. There was no horrendous and borderline psychological abuse going on in my life. I simply believed.

I don't worry about the salvation of my children because I have dedicated their lives to Christ and I'm doing all I can as a Mom to raise them as I feel God is leading me to raise them. So in faith, I believe in their salvation.

And I receive comfort through my faith.

I know, I hear you saying, but Amy you don't believe in these things anyway, why do you care? You're right I don't believe in the vengeful, jealous, wrathful Christian God and I don't believe in an afterlife based on reward and punishment or on the whim of God. But I feel I must say something when I see a belief being promoted that is potentially so harmful to anyone who does believe and has lost a child.

I believe I stated that I didn't know. And I don't think that humans have all the answers to every afterlife question posed. If others want to step out and believe that they have an accurate answer for everything...so be it. I can't claim something as truth if I'm not sure about it.

But...I'm not worrying about this, either. Because I believe that God has it under control...He has a plan for the souls of babies and for those who haven't heard the gospel. I don't know exactly what that plan is...but I know He does and I don't worry about it.

Imagine a woman, a believer, who has just lost her infant, she goes to her pastor and pleads, "Please tell me my baby is safe with Jesus in Heaven!" Her pastor responds, "I'm sorry we just can't know for sure." What extra torment does that put on that poor woman! How do you justify this form of torture?

In my faith...a woman who has lost her baby...TRUSTS that her baby is in God's hands. It's not an issue of KNOWING anything definitive. It's an issue of faith and trust.

I would never question whether or not my child went to heaven or not...because I've always had faith that they WILL. And I don't ponder over the salvation of all the babies in the world because I've always trusted that God's got it under control.

Still, I'm not in the position to claim that I KNOW the will of God, Amy. And that was my point when I posted.

Katzpur asked how we reconcile God's loving nature to the notion that those who haven't accepted Christ are hell bound and my answer has been...

I don't have an answer to this. I think we're to live our lives doing what we feel God is leading us to do and TRUST that whatever God wills is justified.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Just the question gives me the creeps.

 

[sahra-t]

Just curious, for you, at what age does a baby become a child able to go to hell?

 

[dawny0826]

Just curious, for you, at what age does a baby become a child able to go to hell?

A question for who? Me?

I've already stated...I don't ask these questions. On faith, I trust that my children are going to be fine and I'm raising them as I feel led by God.

And again...I don't have all the answers.

 

[Smoke]

I don't think people who believe in a literal, everlasting hell worry much about justice or mercy. Even if one lived a long and evil life, if one were an Adolf Hitler or a Josef Stalin, there would be a point at which enough was enough, and hell was no longer, by any stretch of the imagination, a just punishment. There's only a finite amount of evil that can be accomplished in a human lifetime, and an infinite punishment is by definition disproportionate.

But I feel I must say something when I see a belief being promoted that is potentially so harmful to anyone who does believe and has lost a child.

Imagine a woman, a believer, who has just lost her infant, she goes to her pastor and pleads, "Please tell me my baby is safe with Jesus in Heaven!" Her pastor responds, "I'm sorry we just can't know for sure." What extra torment does that put on that poor woman! How do you justify this form of torture?

It's cruel, perverse, and inexcusable, but it's the same kind of cruelty -- greater in degree, but the same kind -- as telling that same woman that her Buddhist husband or her Jewish father is in hell.

Not all beliefs are equal, and I believe that some of them are immoral. If there's such a thing as sin, it's surely a sin of the mind to believe in such a monstrous god, and another sin to imagine that one is privy to all his decrees.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't know nuthin' bout birthin no condemned babies!

There is so much in life that is unclear. So much that we won't know until we arrive at the doorsteps of eternity. The Bible does not give us a clear indication of what will happen with the stillborn or the SIDs baby or the 2 year old who died in a car accident.

But I believe that the hope that lies within a mother's or father's breast when a child passes is the best inkling of what will happen. Would I stake my eternity on it? No. But I would not even give the OTHER option the benefit of the doubt.

I don't believe in the vengeful, jealous, wrathful Christian God

Take heart, neither does God. In a fit of spiritual myopia, Jews and Christians alike have described God in ways that are contradicted by Jesus. I'll stick with the "God is Love" view myself.

 

[Bishka]

To put it lightly

Do babies deserve hell?


My answer:


HELL NO!

 

[Super Universe]

Children who pass on have a special place in the afterlife. These young souls are cared for and guided, usually by relatives if they have any.

The afterlife is not immediately heaven. There is so much more to learn, experience and much work to do. Heaven is many schoolhouses and government jobs away.

 

[sahra-t]

A question for who? Me?

I've already stated...I don't ask these questions. On faith, I trust that my children are going to be fine and I'm raising them as I feel led by God.

And again...I don't have all the answers.

Sorry, I didn't specify. It was you (plural). Thanks for answering, it was obvious from your posts what your answer was going to be. I'm more curious as to maybe where Maize or others would draw the line- it appears to be only the fact that it is a baby which they feel means it couldn't possibly go to hell. When is a baby not a baby? Can a very young child go to hell?

 

[Bishka]

Sorry, I didn't specify. It was you (plural). Thanks for answering, it was obvious from your posts what your answer was going to be. I'm more curious as to maybe where Maize or others would draw the line- it appears to be only the fact that it is a baby which they feel means it couldn't possibly go to hell. When is a baby not a baby? Can a very young child go to hell?

No...... I don't think anybody is going to hell per se.

 

[Green Gaia]

Sorry, I didn't specify. It was you (plural). Thanks for answering, it was obvious from your posts what your answer was going to be. I'm more curious as to maybe where Maize or others would draw the line- it appears to be only the fact that it is a baby which they feel means it couldn't possibly go to hell. When is a baby not a baby? Can a very young child go to hell?

I personally do not believe in hell.

 

[Bishka]

I personally do not believe in hell.

What a coicendence Maize, Neither do I.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I couldn't agree more with your perspective on sin. However, given the fact that many Christians do believe that if you, as a member of the Baha'i Faith, had a child who died as a baby, that baby would go to Hell.

Yet another non sequitur, I fear!

It doesn't matter WHAT religion the parents are if the baby is still too young to make any religious choices whatever! So as I already pointed out, the Ezekial passage makes the baby's innocence abundantly clear.

And as to those who condemn Baha'is, this tends to be without bothering to consider the Biblical criteria and tests that Baha'is clearly pass, the one in First John 4:2 being one of the foremost....

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Drewish Princess]

What a coicendence Maize, Neither do I.

Nor do I !!! But if there were such a place for sinners; A child's "sins" go onto the Parents up until Bar/Bat Mitzvah age: 12 for girls and 13 for boys. Even after said age I believe it to be almost impossible for one so young to become so corupt as to deserve Hell. There has been only one instance that i know of and I will not disclose that for fear of offending someone.

ALL BABIES GO TO HEAVEN!!!!!!:angel2:

 

[Draka]

Since I don't believe in "hell" either I think you know my answer. Looking at Jamie now, I can't possibly imagine what he would do that would be deservant of such a fate anyway. His diapers don't stink that bad, no matter what Daddy may act like while changing them.