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Featured Do all paths lead to God? No is the answer

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Meandflower, May 1, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    What do you mean by "inherently in God?"
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    God is life. We are all made of the substance of God.
     
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  3. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the bible is not a science book.

    Job 26:7
    He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

    Isaiah 40:22
    22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

    Sorry, Flat Eath Theory is not science. And the bible revealing such an "accurate" depiction of a pseudoscientific theorized earth, can be easily explained. Since the bible is a collection of religious texts written in the past and being something sacred to members of its religion, it's not surprising to see a modern day pseudoscientific theory that resembles descriptions from the bible.

    Here's a visual aid to help you out. The earth is flat and in the shape of a circle held up by nothing, as it was accurately depicted in Job and Isaiah verses that you picked.

    [​IMG]

    Learning and thinking tip:

    Careful with pareidolia, it may seem like it's going help your argument, but can easily be turned on you and totally refute your argument as well.
     
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  4. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    You just proved my point. Unless if you are saying that acting in ways that God doesn't approve is the path to God, I don't see why you would disagree.
     
  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that no path leads to God. God is near us already nearer than the breath we breathe. If you find God it's because he found you.
     
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  6. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Got any sources, please?
    I've got one or two that show only justice and violence.
    Extreme Christians tell me that 'goodness' only exists if they follow God. They all seem to be gun nuts.... :)
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It is a Baha'i belief that God is closer to us than we are to our own selves, and that just reminded me of a passage that expresses it. Where it says "That some are near and others are far is to be ascribed to the manifestations themselves" that means that how close or far we are from God depends upon us, and it is the waywardness of the heart that causes us to be far from God, and condemns us to remoteness from Him.

    "It should be remembered in this connection that the one true God is in Himself exalted beyond and above proximity and remoteness. His reality transcendeth such limitations. His relationship to His creatures knoweth no degrees. That some are near and others are far is to be ascribed to the manifestations themselves.

    That the heart is the throne, in which the Revelation of God the All-Merciful is centered, is attested by the holy utterances which We have formerly revealed.

    Among them is this saying: “Earth and heaven cannot contain Me; what can alone contain Me is the heart of him that believeth in Me, and is faithful to My Cause.” How often hath the human heart, which is the recipient of the light of God and the seat of the revelation of the All-Merciful, erred from Him Who is the Source of that light and the Well Spring of that revelation. It is the waywardness of the heart that removeth it far from God, and condemneth it to remoteness from Him. Those hearts, however, that are aware of His Presence, are close to Him, and are to be regarded as having drawn nigh unto His throne.

    Consider, moreover, how frequently doth man become forgetful of his own self, whilst God remaineth, through His all-encompassing knowledge, aware of His creature, and continueth to shed upon him the manifest radiance of His glory. It is evident, therefore, that, in such circumstances, He is closer to him than his own self. He will, indeed, so remain for ever, for, whereas the one true God knoweth all things, perceiveth all things, and comprehendeth all things, mortal man is prone to err, and is ignorant of the mysteries that lie enfolded within him…" Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 185-186
     
  8. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Of course kindness, love, justice, goodness is important .
    But this is begging the question ( if this was a truth claim someone was making)
    This would be an exclusive truth claim that would be intolerant of religions which state that their prescribed way is the only way .
    //Only paths/religions that teach kindness, love, justice, goodness is important is a path that lead to God.//
     
  9. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Has God created the thoughts ,actions, deeds ,lifestyle, Job and all the decisions you have made up till now ? Or are you freely choosing ? Are you responsible?
     
  10. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

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    The Bible does not say the earth is flat and of course it wouldn't since God created the earth and knows full well its shape. The shape of the earth, as revealed by God to the prophet Isaiah, is indeed a circle or sphere. This fact contradicted the popular and erroneous idea of mankind during that time that the earth was flat.
     
  11. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

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    Just as a secretary writes the letter, the message came from the one who dictated it. In the same way, the author of the Bible is God, not the men he used to physically write it. God guided them to write his thoughts. (2 Peter 1:21)

    The Bible not only revealed the earth is a circle or sphere and not flat as people believed, but it also described the earth's water cycle which wasn't well understood until the 1800's. The Bible had accurately described it thousands of years in advance. (Job 36:27-28)

    As stated beforehand, long before people knew how bacteria and viruses cause disease, the Bible contained God's instructions on ways to stop disease from spreading and sanitary practices to protect health including washing after touching a dead body, quarantining those with infectious disease and disposing of human waste safely. (Leviticus 11:28) (Leviticus 13:1-5) (Deuteronomy 23:13)

    The Bible does teach there is only one road that leads to everlasting life. The Law that was given to the Israelites acted as a tutor leading to the Christ (Galatians 3:23-24) Christians are now under the law of Christ. On the road leading to everlasting life are those obeying Jehovah God and doing his will. Many religions say they are Christian, but prove false to this claim because they do not do God's will. Instead they teach people to worship God in a way he does not accept. (Matthew 7:21-23) Jesus said you will recognize those who worship God the right way by their fruits or works. (Matthew 7:16-17)
     
  12. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Is a circle flat? Yes it is. Is a sphere flat? No it isn't, that's why in Isaiah, it says "circle" and not "sphere."
     
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  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The Bible is not the only revelation from God that ever existed or that will ever exist.

    I do not believe that belief in Jesus is the only way to everlasting life and I have my doubts that belief only in Jesus will confer everlasting life, now that Baha'u'llah has come. Baha'u'llah promised everlasting life to His followers just as Jesus promised everlasting life to His followers. I believe in both Jesus and Baha'u'llah so I am covered.

    John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.


    “O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

    “No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

    Regarding Matthew 7:21-23, nobody except God knows who God will accept as having done His Will.
    Read in context, Matthew 7:16-17 refers to the fruits of the prophets, not to the fruits of the believers.

    Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: fruit
     
  14. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

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    The prophet Isaiah wrote under inspiration Isaiah 40:22.

    Speaking from the viewoint of Jehovah, who dwells above the circle of the earth, the earth's face would have a circular form just as the edge of a full moon presents a circular appearance to us. That in no way implies the earth or moon are flat.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I read the Bible every day of the week, but the Bible simply is not inerrant. Plus, the question of Divine inspiration is just that-- a question.

    IOW, how exactly did Divine inspiration work, and to which degree? There's no way to answer that question, and it is rather presumptuous for someone to claim that (s)he knows the answer, unless one actually has God's "mind".

    Sorry to say, but there are some questions we probably will never know the answer to, but this should not take away the general sets of morals and teachings that are found within.

    BTW, how did Christians learn before the NT was even written and the canon even selected [the latter was in the 4th century]? I believe there are two main sources, but I'm going to stop here to get a response first. My point is that there's more to learning about creation than just through the Bible.
     
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  16. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    So God himself didn't know that the earth was spherical or did he simply lied about the earth being a circle? Or the more probable answer, you were twisting scripture in order for it to fit your argument.

    And that in no way implies the earth or moon is spherical. It's nothing more than just you putting things we know today about the earth into bible verses.

    I was willing to help you climb up out of the hole that you dug yourself into, but apparently you would rather keep on digging deeper. If there is a God, perhaps it was he who sent me to rescue you but because you chose your own ego over God, you missed your opportunity at experiencing one of God's work. You do know that heaven is above you, right? And what lurks below?
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I think one possibility is that God knew the earth was spherical but the words of Isaiah do not represent the words of God since there is no proof that Isaiah actually wrote the Old Testament scriptures.

    The other possibility is that Isaiah said the earth is a circle because that was all the people he was addressing were able to understand many thousands of years ago given those people had limited knowledge.

    The other possibility is that Isaiah was using metaphorical language that was never intended to be interpreted as literal fact. Actually, I think this is most likely true, coupled with the other possibilities above.

    What is actually written in the Bible has to be twisted in order for Christians to be able to say it is accurate scientifically. The Bible is not a science book.
     
    #117 Trailblazer, May 6, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  18. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

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    The Bible is inspired of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and the prophecies contained in it have and are all coming true because God cannot lie.

    Jesus himself quoted the scriptures identyfying them as coming from his God and Father. (Matthew 4:4) (Deuteronomy 8:3) (Luke 4:16-21) (Isaiah 61:1,2) In fact, the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy. (Revelation 19:10) (Luke 24:27) (Matthew 5:17)

    Everlasting life means coming to know Jehovah, the only true God, and the one who he sent, Jesus Christ. (Psalms 83:18) (John 17:3)

    The love of God means that we obey God and do his will and exercise faith in the ransom of Jesus that Jehovah provided. (1 John 5:3) (John 3:16)

    Jehovah has appointed Jesus to judge the entire inhabited earth as to who have and have not done his Father's will as detailed in the scriptures. (Acts 17:30-31)

    Jehovah God, our Grand Instructor, deeply desires us to listen to him before it's too late so that we may enjoy everlasting life. (Isaiah 48:17-18)
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, God does not lie. The prophecies for the return of Christ were all fulfilled in the mid to late19th century. There is nothing to wait for anymore. The Kingdom of God on earth is not coming down from heaven at some future date, nor will an earthly Kingdom be orchestrated by Jesus from heaven, as Jesus said that His Kingdom of not of this world (John 18:36-37). What humanity needed to build the Kingdom of God on earth was revealed by Baha'u'llah in His Writings and that Kingdom is in the process of being built by humans right now.
    Everlasting life to a Baha'i means coming to know Baha'u'llah who God sent in 1852 with a new Revelation from God, and to obey all the ordinances He has revealed.

    “The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. “No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183
    The love of God to a Baha'i means that we obey God and do his will and exercise faith in Baha'u'llah and all the other Messengers of God, including Jesus.
    God has appointed nobody to judge because only God can judge anyone. We are presently living in The Day of Judgment
    Indeed God desires us to listen to what He revealed through Baha'u'llah and recognize Baha'u'llah before it's too late so that we may enjoy everlasting life.
     
  20. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

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    At Isaiah 40:22 the Hebrew word chugh here translated as "circle" may also be rendered as "sphere." (A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures, by B. Davidson)

    Interestingly, only a spherical object appears as a circle from every angle of view.

    But a flat disk would more often appear as an ellipse, not a circle. Go look at the flat earth picture that you posted prior. It shows an ellipse, not a circle.
     
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