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Featured Do all paths lead to God? No is the answer

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Starlight94, May 1, 2021.

  1. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    If God is truly omnipresent, being with God is the default and only option.
     
  2. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    For many people, trauma is precisely what does lead to a spiritual awakening. It seems we often have to go through the darkness, to get to the light. I don’t know why it has to be that way
     
  3. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I’m reminded of when God tells Peter not to insult His creation by calling it unclean.
     
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    But we would not purposely say we need trauma (or darkness) to experience spiritual awakening. Majority of us who gone through it would mostly likely say no.

    But many do say trauma or not they need darkness as with the light. Whether they experienced darkness or not it sounds like a contradiction or irrelevant need for pain to experience light.

    Find your light but don't ask for pain as a means to receive it. We learn from "uncontrolled" painful experiences but what youre sayjng is we need them. I totally disagree. Who would say sonekbe sexual abused need to be abused to experience awakening?

    That's how I read your other post but less extreme example.
     
  5. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    If all of this true, then it means that God has interfered to a great degree - mainly by making humans aware of His existence and setting down various rules and regulations. This has the effect of micromanaging people's lives and tying their hands while evil can run rampant. If not for that, people would truly be able to live their own lives and make their own rules - and they would be able to deal with evil more effectively, on human terms.

    All too often, religion serves to impede justice by telling people they have to sit and passively accept evil and simply have faith that God will punish them in the afterlife. Humanity would be far better off if we ignored such admonitions and took matters into our hands. Religion and its rules stand in the way of progress. If God doesn't want to intervene, then I believe we'd be better off if we operated as if He doesn't even exist at all.
     
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  6. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Light can blind us to the truth. You can’t see the galaxy until it is night.
     
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  7. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to justify the world, I'm only trying to explain the way I see it; while being conscious that I see only a little. If you ask me why a loving God allows the innocent to suffer, I don't have an answer to that question. I'm not sure anybody does.

    I can't possibly speculate what others need or don't need. I can only say that I am grateful now, for the suffering that brought me to a relationship with my creator. But probably what I have suffered is trivial in comparison to what others suffer every day.

    I do believe that everything has a purpose. I don't know what that purpose is, but I do trust in a loving God who is always with us. And I do believe that love is the most powerful energy in the universe.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Darkness, in this context, is seen as bad not good. If god is light, how would one be blinded? (Why would one think they would be blinded?)
     
  9. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    So.....why? Based on what reasoning?

    From what is written @ Psalms 34:15-16, & Jesus’ own words @ Matthew 7:21-23, I don’t see how. Do you use another holy book that states differently?
     
  10. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    They have been. In fact, in the past couple centuries, the Bible’s been more ignored than ever.
    Do you think people’s attitudes are better now, or worse?
    Do you find more cooperation in the world, more unity?
    If you think so, why?
    I see more chaos....more dysfunctional families & more mental illnesses....more greed and selfishness.

    You’re probably looking at things through the lens of technology....

    Technology is great, it leads to an easier lifestyle, and medicine has advanced, but these improvements tend to blind people to how bad the state of society really is. There are more social problems than ever before!

    If you can’t see it, then you don’t want to.

    But adhering to the Bible’s guidelines would help improve people’s attitudes towards each other.
    I’m part of an over-8.5-million-strong worldwide group that has proven it works. Proverbs 3:5-6

    I hope you have a great day.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Science and technology have helped enhance society and the daily lives of billions of people across the planet. It is, of course, a double-edged sword which humans have to be careful with.

    When you ask if people's attitudes are better now or worse, I'm not sure which period we're comparing it with. Some attitudes have noticeably changed, particularly in terms of what kind of governments we find acceptable. There was once a time when people thought having a king with absolute power was acceptable, but not anymore. People thought burning witches at the stake was perfectly acceptable, but not anymore.

    It's all relative, I think.

    I don't know if there's any better cooperation in the world, so you may have me there. However, I think that we have better communication in the world, for whatever that may be worth. That, too, is a double-edged sword, since the internet allows everyone in the world to communicate with each other. So, there's cooperation, but also a lot of arguing and squabbling - and that's what seems to get all the attention.

    I'd like to see more unity in the world, and I wish there could be. Right now, we seem to be regressing backward into the days of the Cold War, as our relations with Russia and China seem tense as of late. We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail and we can refrain from taking any self-destructive path.

    There's also a great deal of mental illness, dysfunctional families, and other such chaos. I see that, too, but I see those as problems within society and can be explained within the construct of human society and culture - of which religion has been a significant part. But I wouldn't expect God to solve our problems for us or save us from ourselves.

    As for adhering to the guidelines in the Bible, if they make sense and seem logical from a human secular point of view, then I see no problem. For example, if we, as a society, decide that murder is wrong, then there's a logical and beneficial purpose in doing so. Not because God says so (as if we wouldn't be able to figure it out on our own). Same thing with lying, cheating, stealing. Prohibiting these acts and agreeing that they're morally wrong are things that humans can do on their own, without any God to tell them this.

    And even when people do try to follow the guidelines and reach a gray area or something which is vague or unclear, God isn't going to come down and make a ruling. So, they're stuck having to wing it and figure it out on their own anyway.

    So, ultimately, at least in terms of practical reality, we have to do everything ourselves and figure out everything on our own. "God" (however one defines it) just doesn't seem to have any relevant part of that process.
     
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  12. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I agree....we have an innate, ‘built-in’ sense of what’s just, a sense what is immediately right and wrong.
    I say “immediately,” because we’re pretty good w/ figuring out what is best for the short term, but our wisdom is limited for reaching long-range benefits.

    Gotta go, for now. Thanks for your amiable reply.
     
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  13. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Why do think that all robots can't choose?There are robots that humans created for sorting out good apples from bad ones. And robots that can play chess and choose to make whatever moves it wants to make.
     
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  14. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, then are you saying that "free will" in itself, it the path away from God?
     
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  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Has the existence of God confirmed? Or a case of 'much ado about nothing'?
     
  16. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Oh no! But because of our Free Will, i.e., our ability to make wise and stupid choices, we can act in ways that Jehovah God doesn’t approve.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Humans.
     
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  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Why wouldn't God be all good, just because God created us with free will? What's bad about that?
     
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  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But the Bible is not the only holy book that has ever been written.
    Other holy books say all true religions lead to God.
    If those holy books were written after the Bible, then they supersede the Bible.
    That's how it works.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is a distinct possibility, and it will be at God's discretion.

    "But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."

    (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)

    Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
     
    #80 Trailblazer, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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