DNA bank yes or no?

[Hermit Philosopher]

It already exists in the US. Not officially, but practically.

Dreadful. I bet they try and make it seem to be for their own good too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the UK, suspects arrested by the police may have to give a sample which is recorded in the DNA database. However, no member of the general public has to provide a sample. I understand there are now some 3.5 million records, amounting to about 5% of the UK population. By law, these records can only be used in relation to criminal investigations. However there are concerns that samples can be taken and recorded, even from people who are never charged with any offence, or are charged but subsequently acquitted.

It comes down to the issue of how far one trusts the state not to abuse the data, and how far one trusts it not to make mistakes using it. Personally I struggle to see how this type of information could be abused. But I have no difficulty at all in seeing how the police could screw it up and convict the wrong person.

That is prettiest much the same here. If one is arrested it is seen to be almost the same thing as being finger printed. I know someone, who when he was on meth and sometimes heroin, got busted because he had a criminal past and while burglarizing a house he cut himself. That was all that was needed. It was a good thing. After about three years of forced sobriety he did pretty good. For a while.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dreadful. I bet they try and make it seem to be for their own good too.

No, it arose naturally. I posted a video about it. That was never the plan,but it was the result. There are some valid worries. But it has also solved some crimes that were thought to never be solvable.

 

[Nimos]

It's a double edge sword.

While useful, there's also a huge if not inevitable potential for abuse and minuplation.

That is true, but if only the police have access or have to accept any requests for using it.

You could assume that any form of data kept could be abused in one way or another, so wouldn't you be able to argue that for any of these? If the system is corrupt, it would or could be misused, but even today those types of political systems would do that, in one way or another.

So it depends on how the data is used, personally I don't see a great use of these data on their own or at least I can't see what particular use it would have. Much like a telephone book (when they still existed ) or a website with telephone numbers, if you are looking for a specific number its very useful, but if you are just randomly typing in phone numbers, its not particular useful.

Lets assume I was a policeman and I looked up your DNA profile, what exactly could I do with it, unless I have something to compare it to, like something from a crime scene, and still that material would need to be analyzed in a lab that do stuff like that, before its even comparable. Obviously someone could plant DNA at a crime scene, but you could still do that today anyway.

 

[Nimos]

It comes down to the issue of how far one trusts the state not to abuse the data, and how far one trusts it not to make mistakes using it. Personally I struggle to see how this type of information could be abused. But I have no difficulty at all in seeing how the police could screw it up and convict the wrong person.

I agree, but that still happens even today. And also one could make the case that if they could investigate the DNA more easily it could reduce it as well. I don't think its a 100% perfect solution. And you can probably find cases where someone have be wrongly sentences even with DNA involved.

Like people have there tax information, name, personal ID etc. registered, the DNA profile would also just be part of it.

But I could imagine that it could prevent a lot of crimes, simply because people would know that it would be fairly easy for the police to check the DNA and that the potential offender is registered. And I assume it pretty difficult to not leave behind DNA, especially if there is a struggle of some sort, like assault, rape, burglary etc.

Again, it could be interesting to know how effective this would or could be compared to there not being. Probably someone have examined it, but have no clue what to even search for

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is true, but if only the police have access or have to accept any requests for using it.

You could assume that any form of data kept could be abused in one way or another, so wouldn't you be able to argue that for any of these? If the system is corrupt, it would or could be misused, but even today those types of political systems would do that, in one way or another.

So it depends on how the data is used, personally I don't see a great use of these data on their own or at least I can't see what particular use it would have. Much like a telephone book (when they still existed ) or a website with telephone numbers, if you are looking for a specific number its very useful, but if you are just randomly typing in phone numbers, its not particular useful.

Lets assume I was a policeman and I looked up your DNA profile, what exactly could I do with it, unless I have something to compare it to, like something from a crime scene, and still that material would need to be analyzed in a lab that do stuff like that, before its even comparable. Obviously someone could plant DNA at a crime scene, but you could still do that today anyway.

Keep in mind police officers can and have been bought.

Imagine an organized crime cartel wanting a person's dna and will do whatever it takes to get it?

 

[Nimos]

Keep in mind police officers can and have been bought.

Imagine an organized crime cartel wanting a person's dna and will do whatever it takes to get it?

They wouldn't get his actual DNA. It would just be a DNA profile like this or whatever they look like:

And the police could take whatever sample and run it against the DNA data. So even if they got his DNA profile, im not really sure what they could use it for. Also it would still have to go through a court etc. so I doubt you just do that without it getting noticed, and you could make it so the lawyers on each side would need to confirm that the DNA was a match as well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Basically its just a place where citizens DNA is kept, for instance when someone is born you could take a sample and store it there, should something happen and the police find some DNA, but don't know who it is, they could run it against this DNA bank and find out who it is.

Not sure what you mean by cloning?

Cloning was meant as a joke reference to the identity theft that is current in the world.

I thought that might be what you meant, but I wasn't certain. Thank you for the clarification.

Given the leaps and bounds in our technology, it would be both a very wonderful and very scary thing. But that is pretty much true of much of what we touch.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like it or not, at least for the US and before long for the world, such a data bank does exist. Perhaps what we should be concerned with are ways to keep it from being abused.

 

[Heyo]

Im only referring to it being used in crimes or accidents to identify people, not like a google search engine for everyone.

When it exists it is more or less public. It only depends on how good your hacking skills are or how deep your pocket is to bribe some DB admin.
Data that is used only for its intended purpose is a purely hypothetical concept.

 

[Heyo]

Personally I struggle to see how this type of information could be abused.

Ask your (potential) employer or (outside of the UK) your healthcare insurance.
You have a higher risk of some illness? "Sorry, we have decided for another applicant." and "Your premium will be $$$."
It is basically another "credit score" or "social credit system" - but 1. you can't do anything about it and 2. you may even not know about it because one of your relatives is in the system.

 

[Nimos]

When it exists it is more or less public. It only depends on how good your hacking skills are or how deep your pocket is to bribe some DB admin.
Data that is used only for its intended purpose is a purely hypothetical concept.

Yes obviously. But then we are heading towards the paranoid territory ain't we?

You could say that about every single thing, like medical data in general etc. People could in theory steal those as well, that doesn't mean that all medical record ought to be deleted, same with tax or official information, then we should delete all of those as well, because I would assume that these data would be far more useful for anyone that stole them than a DNA record.

Ask your (potential) employer or (outside of the UK) your healthcare insurance.

Why should they get these information? If they law state that they can only be used by law enforcement in specific cases where these information could be useful, like solving crimes. Then health insurance companies etc. wouldn't get access.

 

[Heyo]

Why should they get these information? If they law state that they can only be used by law enforcement in specific cases where these information could be useful, like solving crimes. Then health insurance companies etc. wouldn't get access.

Governments change, laws change.

 

[Nimos]

Governments change, laws change.

Yes, but I don't think anything would work if one goes with the approach that its going to be as bad as it could possible be.

 

[exchemist]

Ask your (potential) employer or (outside of the UK) your healthcare insurance.
You have a higher risk of some illness? "Sorry, we have decided for another applicant." and "Your premium will be $$$."
It is basically another "credit score" or "social credit system" - but 1. you can't do anything about it and 2. you may even not know about it because one of your relatives is in the system.

Excellent point.

 

[Heyo]

Yes, but I don't think anything would work if one goes with the approach that its going to be as bad as it could possible be.

Famous last words: "what could possibly go wrong?"

It is simply a point of experience that what can be be exploited, will be exploited and often in a way you didn't even think of. So much so that it has become a principle in data privacy that you look for a very good reason to store some data instead of thinking of "why not".