Disproportionate

[Augustus]

In a hypothetical society free from any forms of discrimination none of us would be in jail.

Perhaps if it was free from discrimination, and poverty, and avarice, and jealousy, and anger, and...

Basically, if it was free of discrimination and humans

 

[Harel13]

Common sense tells me it's wrong.

Why?

 

[Augustus]

Common sense tells me it's wrong.

What are your thoughts on why Asian Americans are imprisoned at a lesser rate than white people?

Are the white people being discriminated against?

(Also, as an aside, it's quite telling that Asian Americans are frequently left off the white/black/Hispanic comparison charts in articles about discrimination in criminal justice)

 

[Augustus]

I respect your opinion that you believe it's possible for a certain racial percentage in a penal institution to not reflect their national race percentage proportionately even in an unbiased society.

Do you agree it is true though? Random distributions do not look balanced (especially in dynamic systems).

 

[exchemist]

Are you saying that the poor whites who get incarcerated and the poor blacks who get incarcerated are proportionate to their respective poor national population count?

Probably not far off, in many countries, though it will be more complex, no doubt, with cultural issues superimposed as well.

For instance, if one belongs to a group that feels it has been systematically excluded and maltreated by majority society, as blacks were in the US southern states until as recently the 1960s, one might feel that little or no allegiance is owed to majority society, including even its laws, to some extent. One might feel like an outlaw, in other words. Of course this is an extreme view that won't apply to most people, but all it takes is a few with that attitude and the stats will go up for crime in that ethnic group.

This doesn't seek to excuse criminal activity, but one does have to get beyond moral judgements and look at the factors that mould human behaviour, if one wants to make a difference.

The same goes for the factors that mould police attitudes and behaviour as well. If they spend a lot of time arresting blacks, they may come to view blacks in general with suspicion. So you get an embedded prejudiced police culture, which then creates a vicious circle because the blacks won't trust the police to be fair to them - and so more of them will be encouraged to behave like outlaws.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Another problem unfortunately.

I would suggest it is part of the same problem.
there is little relationship on the punishment given and its effect on crime rate.
There is a far closer correlation between the certainty of being caught or not, with crime rate.

In the UK, police on the street are not armed. However almost every one who harms a police man is caught and punished. The likelihood of being caught is in the 90 to 100% range. Some but very few police officers get killed or seriously injured.

Whereas in USA where police are armed, and there is a death penalty, and far longer prison sentences. the chances of a police officer getting killed is very high indeed.

Crime is not much related to race anywhere, it is more about social deprivation and lack of employment opportunities. Even honest people in desperation can turn to crime.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Why?

Unfortunately there are many criminals from all walks of life.

 

[King Phenomenon]

What are your thoughts on why Asian Americans are imprisoned at a lesser rate than white people?

Are the white people being discriminated against?

(Also, as an aside, it's quite telling that Asian Americans are frequently left off the white/black/Hispanic comparison charts in articles about discrimination in criminal justice)

The population of Asian American prisoners isn't proportionate with the population of Asian American citizens .

 

[King Phenomenon]

Probably not far off, in many countries, though it will be more complex, no doubt, with cultural issues superimposed as well.

For instance, if one belongs to a group that feels it has been systematically excluded and maltreated by majority society, as blacks were in the US southern states until as recently the 1960s, one might feel that little or no allegiance is owed to majority society, including even its laws, to some extent. One might feel like an outlaw, in other words. Of course this is an extreme view that won't apply to most people, but all it takes is a few with that attitude and the stats will go up for crime in that ethnic group.

This doesn't seek to excuse criminal activity, but one does have to get beyond moral judgements and look at the factors that mould human behaviour, if one wants to make a difference.

The same goes for the factors that mould police attitudes and behaviour as well. If they spend a lot of time arresting blacks, they may come to view blacks in general with suspicion. So you get an embedded prejudiced police culture, which then creates a vicious circle because the blacks won't trust the police to be fair to them - and so more of them will be encouraged to behave like outlaws.

When you say probably not far off I'm assuming you're talking about places like the United States and if so are you suggesting that the greatest disproportion lies within the rich?

 

[King Phenomenon]

I would suggest it is part of the same problem.
there is little relationship on the punishment given and its effect on crime rate.
There is a far closer correlation between the certainty of being caught or not, with crime rate.

In the UK, police on the street are not armed. However almost every one who harms a police man is caught and punished. The likelihood of being caught is in the 90 to 100% range. Some but very few police officers get killed or seriously injured.

Whereas in USA where police are armed, and there is a death penalty, and far longer prison sentences. the chances of a police officer getting killed is very high indeed.

Crime is not much related to race anywhere, it is more about social deprivation and lack of employment opportunities. Even honest people in desperation can turn to crime.

This is unfortunate.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Do you agree it is true though? Random distributions do not look balanced (especially in dynamic systems).

I guess anythings possible but within this scenario it seems unlikely.

 

[Yazata]

The number of incarcerated individuals of a specific race should be proportionate to their respective national race population. This is common sense.

It's only common sense if all races commit crimes at the same rate and those crimes are all of equal severity. I don't think that's the case.

 

[King Phenomenon]

It's only common sense if all races commit crimes at the same rate and those crimes are all of equal severity. I don't think that's the case.

You don't think? Do you know this to be true?

 

[exchemist]

When you say probably not far off I'm assuming you're talking about places like the United States and if so are you suggesting that the greatest disproportion lies within the rich?

Im sorry, I don't understand your question.

 

[Nakosis]

The number of incarcerated individuals of a specific race should be proportionate to their respective national race population. This is common sense. After all, we're all human beings.

Much too simplistic, IMO, to provide a reliable equation. There are many other factors involve besides skin tone. There is culture and economics which also factor in. Ideally, if everything else was equal, sure. What factors into one becoming a criminal? Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

What are your thoughts on why Asian Americans are imprisoned at a lesser rate than white people?

Are the white people being discriminated against?

(Also, as an aside, it's quite telling that Asian Americans are frequently left off the white/black/Hispanic comparison charts in articles about discrimination in criminal justice)

Another possibility (and it is only speculation) is that there could be a genetic propensity to commit crimes that differs between races. I once read that black males have on average higher levels of testosterone than white males, while Asian males have the lowest levels of testosterone of all races. Testosterone levels are positively correlated with aggression and criminal behavior, so this could be a possible explanation. I'm not claiming this to be the correct explanation, but it's an idea. Of course, I'm likely to be labeled as a "racist" for even suggesting such a thing. But is it true? Possibly, I don't know. It doesn't mean any race is better than any other, but there may be differences. To suggest all races have the same genetic tendencies is just ignorant.

 

[Augustus]

The population of Asian American prisoners isn't proportionate with the population of Asian American citizens .

Yes, why are they underrepresented in the prison population do you think?

 

[columbus]

The number of incarcerated individuals of a specific race should be proportionate to their respective national race population. This is common sense. After all, we're all human beings.

Why?
Why is that common sense?

I don't think it is, at all. Nice if it happened. But if people aren't being incarcerated due to race then it doesn't make any sense.
Tom

 

[King Phenomenon]

Much too simplistic, IMO, to provide a reliable equation. There are many other factors involve besides skin tone. There is culture and economics which also factor in. Ideally, if everything else was equal, sure. What factors into one becoming a criminal? Correlation does not imply causation.

Yes there are definitely other issues that need to be addressed

 

[King Phenomenon]

Yes, why are they underrepresented in the prison population do you think?

Unfortunately I don't have the answer