Discussion: Creation of Eve from Adam's Rib

[Rational_Mind]

This thread is an offshoot of http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3330701-post22.html
I have often found the following verses posted in support of the creation of Eve (as) from the rib of Adam (as).

It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He has created from him his wife [Hawwa' (Eve)], in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her ....
(Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #189)

Quite frankly, the argument based on these verses is more biblical than Islamic. The reason I say so is that I find this translation, of Muhsin Khan, along with several others to be among the most biased translations. In this case I thought that I could easily support my point by just stating that the word "Nafs" was used and it immediately point out to the spiritual sense. As we know "Nafs" as used in terms such as "Nafs-e-Amara" are not referring to a physical aspect. But more easily this can be resolved by reading the complete verse. I am not a huge fan of Sahih International, among the most popular, as they often have a good translation but when it comes to controversial verses such as on death of Jesus (as) I have found them to quite intentionally falter. But since the topic of evolution has not been as controversial they have done this verse justice in translation. So I will present it here:

Sahih International
It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might dwell in security with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah , their Lord, "If You should give us a good [child], we will surely be among the grateful." (7:189)

Sahih International
But when He gives them a good [child], they ascribe partners to Him concerning that which He has given them. Exalted is Allah above what they associate with Him. (7:190)

So without a doubt in my mind I can say that this verse does not suggest that Eve (as) was created from of Adam (as). And more interestingly, it has no mention of the "rib".

Once this is established we can continue onto Surah Al-Nisa the first verse following bismillah, 4:1 in the mainstream translations.

 

[Matemkar]

Salam. As shia muslims we do not believe the "rib hadith" is authentic. (Even there are shia hadiths against it.)
For further study of the creation of the men and women from "Nafsin Wahidah" (a single entity) please see:

An Enlightening Commentary Into the Light of Holy Qur'an - Nisa : 1 (you can check the commentary of the first verse here)
Women in Islam - Sayyid Moustafa al Qazwini & Fatma Saleh (and I suggest this one most).

ma salam

 

[Rational_Mind]

Salam. As shia muslims we do not believe the "rib hadith" is authentic. (Even there are shia hadiths against it.)
For further study of the creation of the men and women from "Nafsin Wahidah" (a single entity) please see:

Actually what is more interesting is that I have yet find any Hadith that even suggests that Eve (as) was created from the rib of Adam (as). There is only a Hadith that says that a Women by nature is curved like a rib, do not try to bend them as they will break. The intent is much deeper than physical but it has been completely lost by people. Some people have jumped as far as to connect it to the Bible. It is quite likely that the Bible also described the different nature of the Women and their own beauty in being unlike man, unfortunately at some point they also authored their own interpretation right into the text.

An Enlightening Commentary Into the Light of Holy Qur'an - Nisa : 1 (you can check the commentary of the first verse here)

Definitely a better interpretation. Although I don't hold the creationist perspective but rather an evolutionary.

Women in Islam - Sayyid Moustafa al Qazwini & Fatma Saleh (and I suggest this one most).
ma salam

This is surely an interesting read. I agree with many of the points made in there, especially the issue of converts introducing non-Islamic ideas at some point without intention. Although I disagree that either Adam(as) of Eve(as) were in Heaven or they are to blame for what happened. The Quran suggests that it is a garden as the word Jannah doesn't only mean paradise, moreover Quran says none can leave paradise, moreover Shaytan cannot exist in paradise. Secondly, the Quran says that they were deceived hence one cannot be blamed for such. Let me know what you think.

 

[Matemkar]

Salam. Thanks for the information..
About Adam and Eve, I disagree with you on their not being in Heaven, however you are right, Prophet Adam is not to blame, because even before their creation, God clearly tells the angels that He will create a vicegerent ON EARTH [Quran, 2:30].. So, they were meant to be here at the first place..
And (though some might have made dhalla which is not considered sin) we believe Prophets including Adam (pbuh) were infallible. [ The Infallibility of the Prophets in the Qur'an (Part 6 - the case of Adam) also for more logical arguments I suggest watching Hassanain Rajabali's lectures; "Infallibility of Prophets" and "Was Prophet Adam Infallible?" (Ramadhan 1430/2009 series) ]
About the questions regarding, shaitan being in the Garden please refer to this article: Al-Mizan - Allama tabatabai - 2:35-39 (You can skip to the question: "How could Iblīs enter the Garden and mislead Adam therein?" )
Thanks. ma salam

 

[Aamer]

Salam. Thanks for the information..
About Adam and Eve, I disagree with you on their not being in Heaven, however you are right, Prophet Adam is not to blame, because even before their creation, God clearly tells the angels that He will create a vicegerent ON EARTH [Quran, 2:30].. So, they were meant to be here at the first place..
And (though some might have made dhalla which is not considered sin) we believe Prophets including Adam (pbuh) were infallible. [ The Infallibility of the Prophets in the Qur'an (Part 6 - the case of Adam) also for more logical arguments I suggest watching Hassanain Rajabali's lectures; "Infallibility of Prophets" and "Was Prophet Adam Infallible?" (Ramadhan 1430/2009 series) ]
About the questions regarding, shaitan being in the Garden please refer to this article: Al-Mizan - Allama tabatabai - 2:35-39 (You can skip to the question: "How could Iblīs enter the Garden and mislead Adam therein?" )
Thanks. ma salam

On what basis do you believe that Prophets were infallible? Prophet Muhammad was reprimanded by Allah 6 times in Quran. He was a great man and as blessing to mankind but INFALLIBLE? Sounds like the human tendency to deify other humans. Show me your basis for infallibility of Prophets?

 

[Matemkar]

Salam.
I also find it strange another human tendency to lower the degree of beings because they think they can't reach the same level. And accusing someone of deifying just because he reveals the meaning of "God's vicegrent on earth" [Quran, 2:30] and accepts Prophets as the best role models [Quran, 33:21] to be followed in order for Allah to love him [Quran, 3:31].

Anyway, I think I made it clear in THIS POST that infallibility is not among God's attributes. Because making mistakes or not, means you are subject to some rules set by a greater authority. And God is not a subject to rules. He sets the rules. Thus He can't be fallible or infallible. He is beyond that. We are subject to the rules and we can be fallible or infallible.

And, instead of telling me to show you, you could just bother to click on the link you quoted from my first post and you could study it.

Anyway.. Here again showing you the same and extra references where you can study it:
Lessons on Principles of Belief for Youths (from a logical point of view)
Inquiries About Shi'a Islam (a short explanation)
A Shi'ite Encyclopedia - October 1995 (for possible questions in mind about Prophets)
The Infallibility of the Prophets in the Qur'an (Since you say you are a Quranist muslim, this can be helpful)
ma salam

 

[Aamer]

Rational Mind,
I'm trying to keep an open mind on evolution vs creation. I must say, what you said... That Shaitan could not be in paradise at that time does make a lot of sense. Another verse in Quran has really made me rethink evolution...

[21:30] Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart? That WE MADE FROM WATER EVERYTHING THAT LIVES. Will they not acknowledge?

Everything that lives, Allah created from water. Does that not include Adam and Eve? It seems like Allah confirms Big Bang and Evolution in one verse. At least to me. Any thoughts?

 

[Rational_Mind]

Rational Mind,
I'm trying to keep an open mind on evolution vs creation. I must say, what you said... That Shaitan could not be in paradise at that time does make a lot of sense. Another verse in Quran has really made me rethink evolution...

[21:30] Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart? That WE MADE FROM WATER EVERYTHING THAT LIVES. Will they not acknowledge?

Everything that lives, Allah created from water. Does that not include Adam and Eve? It seems like Allah confirms Big Bang and Evolution in one verse. At least to me. Any thoughts?

Let us suppose for a second the Adam (as) was created in Heaven.

The Quran speaking about Heaven (Paradise) says the following about the dwellers of Paradise:

[15:49] Fatigue shall not touch them there, nor shall they ever be ejected therefrom.

Since we are led to believe Adam (as) was created in Heaven it means that Adam (as) was once a dweller in Paradise before he ate from the tree. From the verse above it is now absolutely clear that Adam (as) could never be ejected therefrom. If we accept the view that Adam (as) was ejected then we contradict this clear verse.

The issue here is whether Jannah used in verses about Adam (as) is the Garden in paradise that one cannot be removed from or a Garden here on Earth. We know that translation as Garden is quite fair as other translators have done also and it is justified by the meaning of the word. Let us turn back to the Quran when speaking of Adam (as):

[2:31] And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’

From this verse above we know that Allah (swt) planned to place Adam (as) here on the Earth, so why should we contradict the Quran to believe that Adam (as) was ejected from Paradise. Why not correctly interpret the verse speaking about Adam (as) to be a Garden on Earth.

If this doesn't satisfy one there are many other perspectives, such as the fact that Shaytan cannot exist in paradise regardless of what Garden it is in Heaven. That would contradict the entire notion of Heaven being a dwelling for righteous as the Quran says. One reason given by some Scholars for Shaytan is that Quran doesn't say whether the particular Garden where Adam (as) was created is free of evil. Which itself contradicts the idea of Heaven, moreover, we should ask if the Quran says that Garden is even in Heaven to begin with.

Expanding on Evolution let us test the notion that Adam (as) was created and did not evolve as we are often lead to believe from mainstream teachings of Islam. We are told that Adam (as) was the first man created as in the biblical story which is not the same as the view from the Quran. Here is a undeniable, and yet to be fairly answered argument. The Holy Quran speaking of Adam (as) says the following: [2:31] And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’. All we need to look at in this word is the word Khalifa, which is translated as vicegerent. In every fair sense Khalifa means successor, so when Adam (as) was being created as the first man then how could he possibly be a Khalifa to? Who was he to lead and who was he to succeed when nobody else existed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Z. Zevit has argued that the referenced "rib" now missing from the male of the species is the baculum.