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Featured Discussing Genesis 1&2 - The Beginning

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Seve, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Ancient history isn't Christian doctrine. It just is.. archaeology isn't based on the Bible stories. I don't believe as you do, but not everyone has to believe in the myths to get the message. Religion evolved. The Hebrews were poor and few in number with a hardscrabble life on stony, arid terrain..and they were surrounded by prosperous major powers with rich myths and histories.. You want miracles? The story tellers are the miracle. The Jews are the miracle.
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I just did.. the Book of the Dead dates to 1350 BC.. Hammurabi dates to 1550 BC.
     
  3. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    The forums we've been in aren't all about history. Some were about doctrine. You responded negatively to the Christian teaching on a specific doctrine. So I asked if you're a Christian what denomination if any do you belong to, and what is their teaching on the nature of God. Simple question. If you don't want to answer, just say so.
     
  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The Egyptian influence, if any, on the Hebrews occured in Canaan, when it was occupied by the Egyptians.
     
    #24 shunyadragon, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  5. Seve

    Seve Member

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    That's impossible since you seem to be a confuse person... TRY... reading the Scripture instead of listening to your ancestor's traditional gosip. For your additional learning please continue reading below....:

    There's no Human on this Planet of Apes (Evol’s term) when Noah arrived some 10K +- years ago - but the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) whose been living here for millions of years ago before the Noah' Ark arrived. These prehistoric mankind had been created and brought forth also from the water, on this Planet, exactly as the sons of God were on Adam's Earth. Genesis 1:21 on the 5th Day.

    Today's Science confirms that EVERY living creature MUST have water to live since EVERY cell in our body would die without it. No Ancient Man could have possibly known this. Read it for yourself:

    Noah's grandsons, who were born after the Flood, had NO other Humans to marry. Like Cain, on Adam's Earth, they married and produced offspring with prehistoric people on the first Earth.

    Gen. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men (Heb-Adam), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    The giants were giants intellectually as is shown at the end of the verse. They were the Humans of the first Earth, and they had agriculture, smelting, city building, and technology with little of NO evolution. Adam farmed with NO evolution, and Cain built a city with NO evolution, showing that Human intelligence is Superior to ANY creature made from the water.

    The fulfillment of the prophecy of "and also after that" was fulfilled when Noah brought the human intelligence of Adam to Northern Mesopotamia in the mountains of Ararat. This happened some 10k years ago and the FIRST human cities and the FIRST agriculture, and the ONLY Human civilization on our Earth, PROVES it.

    SUDDENLY, the sons of God, (prehistoric man) evolved the Human Intelligence of Adam and changed from animal to Human intelligence. Prehistoric man settled down, built houses, cities, and developed math and writing, proving that anything is possible IF you have the intelligence of the first Human, Adam. Below is the empirical record of the arrival of the first Humans on this Earth: Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

    Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE.... Map of The Fertile Cresent (9000-4500 BCE)

    In less than 1% of the time since the sons of God diverged from Chimps, on this Planet, they went from Caves to the Moon and back, and yet Evolutionists seem to be totally ignorant of this Fact. Humans also inherited the ERVs of the common ancestor of Chimps BUT Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor, but from our own common ancestor whose name is Adam.
     
    #25 Seve, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  6. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    So you think that before the 'physical world' existed, before 'God created the heavens and the earth', spacetime itself - the dimensions - already existed?
    Ahm, that's not what the text says. In the Genesis story, the heavens and the earth already exist before God calls the electromagnetic spectrum into existence. (We can examine the physical implications of that later if you wish.)
    It's wholly unclear what this means, hence how there could be a first, second, third 'day', since the sun, moon, stars &c weren't created till the fourth 'day'. What 'light' is being referred to, in your view?
     
  7. Seve

    Seve Member

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    Dear blü 2,

    That's NOT True, since, NO planet existed BEFORE the first Day, Gen 1:1-5. Your understanding of the Scripture is flawed. As I have illustrated in my OP...

    What existed was earth/ground without form and void (dust), which was used to make Adam's firmament on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 and Adam's Earth on the 3rd Day.

    Adam's Earth was made on the THIRD Day. Gen 1:10, Trying to force the words to mean that God made the first Earth in Gen 1:1 is refuted by Gen 1:10 and Gen 2:4 which BOTH show the formation of the first Earth on the THIRD Day.
     
    #27 Seve, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Really?

    So at what point did spacetime come into existence?

    And you didn't answer my question about how to divide the light from the dark when there's no sun &c for another four days. What light is being separated?

    I look forward to your answer.
     
  9. Seve

    Seve Member

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    IT's either you are too lazy to do your DD and missed reading my 2nd post.... or perhaps, you need somebody to explain to you what I have posted before.... which one????

    For your convenience..... see below.

     
  10. Seve

    Seve Member

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    Correct, therefore, keep moving out of this thread then.... unless you have anything good to offer or contribute to the topic at hand..... if not.......BYE
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The story of Noah and a global flood is myth.

    What "ancestor's traditional gossip" are you talking about?

    The Mountains of Ararat aren't in Mesopotamia.

    The Natufian civilization was in Egypt, the Levant and Palestine 12,000 years ago. Quit trying to treat scripture like history or science.
     
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  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I've read what you posted.

    It doesn't say at what point, in your interpretation, spacetime itself, rather than any of the objects and phenomena it contains, came into existence.

    I'd appreciate your clarification.
     
  13. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    First there was darkness/evening then there was light/day, But the creative days were not 24 hour days, but periods of universal activity and rest. On the first creative day there was light. But this was not the light from the sun of our minor solar system, which would not be come into existence until the fourth creative day.

    On the second creative day, there was a division of the solar nebula/Cloud/waters, from the Greater galactic nebula/cloud/waters, this separation of the waters above from the waters below which occurred on the second creative day would create a spherical dome.

    On the third day, the solar Nebula within the dome, began to come together to form the terrestrial planets, and then, on the third creative day life began to evolve on earth. And the observer was pleased with what he saw.

    On the fourth day, the observer call for the sn and moon to come into existence, and he was pleased with what he saw.

    On the fifth creative day, aquatic, amphibious, insects and avian life forms began to appear, and the observer was pleased with what he saw.

    On the sixth creative day, the observer called all animal life to come into existence, even the great upright walking reptiles, which would rule the earth, as the most high in the creation for some 3 million years, and the observer was pleased with what he saw.



    On the fourth creative day the sun and moon came into existence
     
  14. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is that since the Bible is a spiritual Book the creation spoken about is a spiritual creation.

    But in the Bible we read...

    2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

    ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

    However, Scientists have proven beyond any doubt that the world is much older than 7,000 years

    If the creation story is referring to a spiritual creation then what is a Day Of God spiritually then? A Day Of God spiritually is in my humble opinion, when a new Sun of Truth rises on the horizon of revelation and a night is when it sets.

    So far we have had about 7 such Suns of Truth arise that proclaim a Day Of God and then set. So there’s Krishna, Sabean (unknown Prophet), Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad and the Bab.

    Sabeanism, Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrian Faith, Hinduism Buddhism, the Babi Faith. These 7 religions or the first week describe the Adamic Cycle or the Prophetic Cycle. In all of these Faiths promises are given of a Great One to appear at the end of the age or cycle or week of God when a ‘new heaven and new earth would begin’, a new cycle or week would be ushered in.

    A new week or cycle or the cycle of fulfillment of the promises began i believe, with Baha’u’llah. Now we are no longer in the Adamic Cycle but the Bahai Cycle in my opinion, which I believe explains a lot.

    For instance international trade and communications and modernisation and the explosion of knowledge did not occur in the Adamic Cycle which largely remained horse and buggy and in the same state scientifically without electricity and modern appliances.

    But around the time of the appearance of Baha’u’llah 1863 (He declared) the explosion of knowledge began and we entered a new cycle where now we have such things as instant world communication, mobile phones, video conferences and the ability to send documents and photos thousands of miles in split seconds. These things never existed in the Adamic Cycle and prove to me that humanity has entered a new age’ or cycle or ‘week of God’. As mentioned in Revelation, ‘all things made new’.

    These are just my views. But I do think that a spiritual Book talking about creation is speaking about a spiritual creation.
     
    #34 loverofhumanity, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  15. Seve

    Seve Member

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    No, it's NOT a myth.

    Unfortunately, it is because that you are lacking in spiritual wisdom and understanding to grasp what the Scripture is actually saying. Perhaps, you need to pray.

    And your argument is fallacious since you are basically repeating the link I have provided that you quoted.... read it again.

    Anyway, in order to understand the Noah's Great Flood, one must understand the following:

    Adam's world was FLAT and much smaller than our present world. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 while our earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while the present World has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

    Adam’s firmament of heaven or world was placed in the vicinity beneath the body of waters in Lake Van, Turkey. It was in a completely enclosed Biosphere - protecting Adam's world from waters below and above it - like an incubator of Humanity.

    Here are some model images of Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Flat Earth - simili- for reference only - Adam's firmament of heaven with their own sun and moon - surrounded by waters below and above it - see link below....

    Ancient Hebrew Cosmology

    Adam’s world was contained beneath the surface of Lake Van, Turkey were it was placed in the beginning during the making and incorporating of our worlds.

    During the great flood, Noah’ Ark was above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft.). The firmament, in which Adam's Earth was contained -- end up floating in Lake Van, Turkey, the largest Lake in Turkey. It's in the mountains of Ararat and is some 75 miles wide.

    We know this because In the New Testament, we were told that their heaven and earth.... “ Whereby that the world THEN WAS -- standing out of the water and in the water -- being overflowed with water, perished” (Greek- totally destroyed) 2Pet 3:5-6

    The Ark which was covered, floated out the top of Adam's firmament into the largest Lake in the area (Lake Van) when the windows of their heaven opened and the flood gates of waters rushes in the firmament,.... as the firmament sank and released the Ark into our world , thus, Adam’s world was totally destroyed / dissolved in their own Global Flood. If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it.

    This explains a way for a 450 foot Ark to be above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft) ref. Gen 7:20 ...AND....in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began (Gen 8:4).

    Our God is awesome God.
     
    #35 Seve, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  16. Seve

    Seve Member

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    Most people don't know the difference between God's time and man's time.

    God has but 7 Days and Today is the still the 6th Day of Genesis. At the end of this present 6th Creative Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

    Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

    A good example of this Scriptural Truth is when YHWH - the Son of God - told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed his commandment. Adam did Not die physically within 24 hours, for he lived to be 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. Adam did not die Spiritually because God doesn't make mistakes and those who are born Spiritually are born Eternally.

    Did Satan tell A&E the Truth, and YHWH lie to them? There is only One way the LORD can be right, and that is for Today to be the 6th Day. All mankind has lived and died on the present 6th Day. God will Not rest until His Creation is made Perfect.
     
  17. Seve

    Seve Member

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    Your understanding of the Scripture is very poor and convoluted. .Perhaps, you need to stick with Bahaullah doctrinal teaching among yourselves.

    This thread is NOT about Bahai' Faith free promotional advertising. Honestly, Bahaullah claiming
    to be like God is ridiculous and offensive to us, Christians.

    Go open up your own thread somewhere. Thanks
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Your post ends with - ‘your thoughts’. They are my thoughts so please be tolerant that you may receive views not to your liking

    If you are not welcoming of a diversity of views and thoughts then you should post in the Christian DIR but this section is open for debate and so you cannot confine others to your viewpoints as you would in DIR.
     
    #38 loverofhumanity, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  19. Seve

    Seve Member

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    I agree.... Each of God's Days in Genesis is NOT 24 hours since the word Days comes from the Hebrew word “Yowm” which can mean 12 or 24 hours, a lifetime or an Eternity.

    A Day in Genesis is a period of labor and God has ONLY 6 periods of labor when He is working to make His perfect Heaven and fill it with perfect mankind. And the the 7th Day jas no no ending which means Eternity

    A Yowm is a period of Labor or work when God is doing His work of creating. There is NO time limit or number of days, years, etc.

    A good example is the Scriptural Fact that TODAY remains the 6th Creative Day and this Day will NOT end until AFTER our Cosmos is burned... which is AFTER Jesus rules and reigns on Earth for a thousand years. Revelation 20:5

    Since, God continues to create sinners in Christ, it means that we still live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in Christ. We will NOT advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns.

    God bless
     
  20. Seve

    Seve Member

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    My Scriptural view is posted all over this thread. Let me know if you have any disagreement
     
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