Discrimination against Atheists in Selective Service

[Imagist]

I consider myself a pacifist. I don't believe that war is inherently wrong; but I do believe that nearly every war that is fought is wrong. I don't blame this on the soldiers, but on the people at the top. I feel it would be my duty if I were to be drafted to conscientiously object.

This position is subtle enough that it might make it difficult to gain exemption from the draft in most nations which allow draft exemptions. But if I claimed I were a Quaker, or a member of the Clergy, I could still be excused in most cases.

However, given that I am an atheist, gaining exemption would be much harder. The US constitution allows freedom of religion, but does not allow freedom of philosophy, and as such, my philosophy, which is as meaningful to me as my religion was when I was a Christian, could easily be discarded.

Now, I wouldn't mind going to the battlefield provided that I was given medical training and allowed to be a field medic, or some other such non-violent job. But this still strikes me as discrimination.

Luckily, it seems that the draft is unlikely to be instated in the US.

 

[Storm]

You raise a good point.

I can kinda see the argument that if we relax the conscientious objector rules, then people will exploit it tododge the draft. OTOH, I think the draft is inherently immoral and should be abolished, so I don't have a problem with that.

 

[3.14]

dodging draft isn't that hard just close the door

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Just say you're gay. Problem solved.

 

[Imagist]

Just say you're gay. Problem solved.

Not really (at least in the USA). If you aren't really gay and they determine in court that you said you were gay to dodge the draft, you can spend time in jail.

 

[3.14]

i wonder how they test that...... don't tell me let me dream

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

Not really (at least in the USA). If you aren't really gay and they determine in court that you said you were gay to dodge the draft, you can spend time in jail.

Perhaps rather spend time in jail than kill?

But you have a point; conscientious objector status would most likely be easier to obtain with a church membership than without.

I don't know whether I'd be willing to be a fighter... if I didn't then someone else would be necessary to take my place. Tough decision, not that I'll ever have to make it (most likely) since I'm getting close to maximum enlistment age. Oh, and also a woman. :/

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Not really (at least in the USA). If you aren't really gay and they determine in court that you said you were gay to dodge the draft, you can spend time in jail.

Which is really ironic, when you consider that extended time behind bars can lead to many a man's first homosexual encounter ...

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I could be wrong, but don't they also have the choice of drafting you, but not assigning you to a position that would ever fight?

I seem to remember that you might have a choice of serving as, say, a clerk that doesn't get deployed or something of that sort.

 

[Smoke]

Just say you're gay. Problem solved.

Not necessarily. During World War II and the Vietnam War, the Selective Service often accepted gay conscripts even after they said they were gay. Then they would be dishonorably discharged after the war.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Not necessarily. During World War II and the Vietnam War, the Selective Service often accepted gay conscripts even after they said they were gay. Then they would be dishonorably discharged after the war.

Yet another prime example of the oxymoron "military intelligence".

 

[Delilah Roo]

Good point, I had not even considered it.

If I were drafted I just would not go. No one forces you to get on an airplane and go to Iraq, the choice is ultamitly yours. No one forces you to squeeze your trigger finger. I would just the the other guy shoot me before I would kill another person. I am an atheist, but I still think it is wrong. Just because god is not judging me, I am judging me. I think how I feel about myself as a person is more important than how god would feel about me, or my neighbor or my mother or anyone else.

Unlike most people I do blame the individual troops, (I know I am not getting any fulbals on this post) Just because some higher up person tells you to do something doesent mean you should do it. Blindly listening to your "supiriors" is wrong in my opinion. If someone told you to do something you beleived was wrong, it is your choice if you listen or not.

This is an argument I have had with many people, and It is usualy hard to find a place where we can agree. I hope I have made my points in a respectful way.

--Delilah Roo

 

[BucephalusBB]

Wait a minute, I do not understand "drafting" becuase english is not my native language.
Is it your duty to serve the army? Because then I really do not understand why religious people and gays could be considered exceptions in the first place..

 

[Apex]

Wait a minute, I do not understand "drafting" becuase english is not my native language.
Is it your duty to serve the army? Because then I really do not understand why religious people and gays could be considered exceptions in the first place..

The draft is something all men, when they reach 18, must register for with the government. What it does is it allows the government to force men to join the military in times of desperate need. Last time it was used was Vietnam, and its success is debatable...

 

[Storm]

Wait a minute, I do not understand "drafting" becuase english is not my native language.

Well, I don't promise that I'll explain it well, but I'll try....

The draft is the USA's system of military conscription in times of war when there aren't enough volunteers. All male citizens must register for it at the age of 18. If the draft is instituted, there's a lottery system (and certain exemptions) to determine who is drafted, or conscripted.

Is it your duty to serve the army?

It's not supposed to be. We pride ourselves on having a volunteer military.

Because then I really do not understand why religious people and gays could be considered exceptions in the first place..

There's something called "conscientious objector status" that allows proven pacifists to get out of the draft. Certain religious groups, like the Quakers are known to be pacifists, so it's easier for them to be recognized as conscientious objectors.

As for gays, our military has the ridiculous and obsolete "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. Being out in the armed forces results in a dishonorable discharge.

 

[Apex]

As for gays, our military has the ridiculous and obsolete "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. Being out in the armed forces results in a dishonorable discharge.

However, if Obama holds to his past statements, which unfortunately is looking less and less likely every day, the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is on its way out the door.

 

[Storm]

*crosses fingers*

 

[Imagist]

i wonder how they test that...... don't tell me let me dream

For the purposes of the law, if you don't have sex with people of the same gender, you aren't gay.

 

[Imagist]

Which is really ironic, when you consider that extended time behind bars can lead to many a man's first homosexual encounter ...

Gay rape doesn't make its victims gay.

 

[Imagist]

I could be wrong, but don't they also have the choice of drafting you, but not assigning you to a position that would ever fight?

I seem to remember that you might have a choice of serving as, say, a clerk that doesn't get deployed or something of that sort.

This has sometimes been allowed, sometimes not. In some cases pacifists have refused noncombat positions because they believe it still supports killing.