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Discourse on the 'Great Crowd':

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by iris89, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Dec 26, 2004
    Discourse on the 'Great Crowd':

    The term 'great crowd' or large crowd or multitude depending on translation which, in itself, is quite common in the New Testament and is used in a variety of ways. Sometimes it is used with regard to large groups of persons who heard Jesus (Yeshua) Christ's public teaching such as at Matthew 14:14, " Jesus got out of the boat, and when he saw the large crowd, his heart was filled with pity for them, and he healed their sick."(The Good News Translation; GNT); and Matthew 20:29, " And as they went out of Jericho, a great crowd followed him."(Revised Standard Version; RSV).

    Also, another use is how it is used at Revelation 19:1 after the vision of the destruction of the symbolic Babylon the Great, where the Apostle John heard, "After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,"(RSV). Which of course referred to a 'great crowd' or multitude in heaven, i.e., referring to all the spiritual sons of God (YHWH), the angels, etc.

    However, in Revelations 7:9-12, " After this, I saw a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and in sight of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: Salvation to our God, who sitteth upon the throne and to the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne and the ancients and the four living creatures. And they fell down before the throne upon their faces and adored God, 12 Saying: Amen. Benediction and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving, honour and power and strength, to our God, for ever and ever. Amen."(Douay Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB). The identification of this 'great crowd' is quite different than the one in Matthew or the one in Revelation 19:1. With regard to this great crowd, the Apostle John saw in his vision were out of every nation, peoples, and tongues thus identifying this great crows as earthly as there are no tribes, nations, peoples, etc. in heaven. Further the scripture shows, these ascribe their salvation to God (YHWH), and to the Lamb, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ, his son as they stand before God's (YHWH's) throne. They are the ones that have come out of the great tribulation as revealed in Revelation. They serve God (YHWH), and he spreads his symbolic tent over them. All their hunger and thirst are to be ended and every tear is to be widped from their eyes as Jesus (Yeshua)(the Lamb of God (YHWH) per John 1:29, " The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world."(DRCB), guides them to the waters of life per Revelation 7:9-12, previously quoted.

    The dey to the identification of this great crowd is actually found within the description of them in Revelation 1:9-12, previously quoted, and in an obvious parallel passage at Revelation 7:15-17, " Therefore, they are before the throne of God: and they serve him day and night in his temple. And he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell over them. 16 They shall no more hunger nor thirst: neither shall the sun fall on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb, which is in the midst of the throne, shall rule them and shall lead them to the fountains of the waters of life: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."(DRCB). Which as previously mentioned speaks of them being guided to fountains of water of life, and of God's (YHWH's) wiping every tear from their eyes. There is a parallel passage at Revelation 21:2-4, " And I, John, saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away."(DRCB), in which we find, God's (YHWH's) tent being with mankind, his wiping every tear from their eyes, and death being no more.

    The vision there presented is concerning persons NOT in heaven, from where the "New Jerusalem" comes down from as revealed in Revelation 21:1-2, " I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone: and the sea is now no more. 2 And I, John, saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(DRCB).

    This poses the question: If the 'great crowd' are individuals who gain salvation and remain on the earth, how could they be said to be 'standing before God's (YHWh) throne' as stated in Revelation 7:9 previously quoted? Now, the position of 'standing' is sometimes used in the Bible to indicate the holding of a favored or approved position in the eyes of the one in whose presence the individual or group stands, see Psalms 5:5, Proverbs 22:29, Luke 1:19, etc. In fact, in Revelations 6:15-17, " And the kings of the earth and the princes and tribunes and the rich and the strong and every bondman and every freeman hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of mountains: 16 And they say to the mountains and the rocks: Fall upon us and hide us from the face of him that sitteth upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of their wrath is come. And who shall be able to stand?" (DRCB) the kings of the earth and all other ones are depicted as seeking to hide themselves from God (YHWH) who is seated on his throne as they could NOT stand before him, compare this with Luke 21:36, " Watch ye, therefore, praying at all times, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are to come and to stand before the Son of man."(DRCB).

    It is thus indicated that this 'great crowd' is formed of individuals who have been preserved during that time of wrath and who are able to 'stand' as approved by God (YHWH) and the Lamb.

    In fact, the Lamb's guiding them to fountains of water of life finds a parallel at Revelation 22:17, " And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come. And he that will, let him take the water of life, freely."(DRCB), see also Ephesians 5:25-27, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Revelation 19:7-9, and 21:9-11. This invitation to take life's water free presented by the heavenly 'bride' class is obviously open to an unlimited number of persons, anyone that wishes. Unnumbered as the 'great crowd' in the vision of Revelation 7:9; thereby harmonizing with Revelation 22:17. Thus, the sum of the evidence represent all who stand approved at the time of the 'great tribulation' and are preserved alive on earth in keeping with Zechariah 3:10, " In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree."(Authorized King James; AV).

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89