1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Discourse on Repentance:

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by iris89, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Discourse on Repentance:

    WHY REPENTANCE IS NECESSARY:

    The subject of repentance can not be understood unless we first understand why repentance is necessary; therefore, let’s look at what the scriptures have to say on the subject:

    “ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12 AV) which shows that repentance is necessary as sin entered the world.
    This is also clearly shown by, “9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
    10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14 AV).

    This is further made clear by, “ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23 AV) therefore making clear we need to turn our lives from sin and repent.

    LIVES MUST BE BROUGHT IN HARMONY WITH GOD’S (YHWH’S) WORD:

    Let’s see what the Bible has to say with regard turning our life around.

    First consider:

    “This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
    18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
    19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
    20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
    21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” (Ephesians 4:17-24 AV) which clearly shows we must strip off the old personality with its works of uncleanness and greed. This would include depraved sexual lust, God dishonoring false dogma, greed, hate of fellow man, hedonism, lasciviousness, etc.

    Now consider:

    “ For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:” (1 Peter 4:3 AV) which just reinforces what was said in Ephesians, clearly showing we must turn our lives around and STOP walking in “lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries [these would include belief in false dogma, practices and traditions including hero worship]:”

    Likewise:

    “ Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
    6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
    7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
    8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
    9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
    10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:” (Colossiams 3:5-10 Av). This scripture once more clearly shows we must STOP practicing “fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:” Therefore we can see for true repentance, we must cease and decease from practices that are NOT approved by God (YHWH).

    TRUE REPENTANCE REQUIRED WHEN ONE TURNS TO GOD:

    Clearly the Bible shows true repentance required when one turns to God; let’s review a pertinent scripture on this subject:

    “ But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.” (Acts 26:20 AV). Ah, here we see, we must do works that “meet for repentance.” What could some of these works be? Well some of these words would be ceasing to do the things one previously did that go against his laws and principles and that bring dishonor to him. What are some of these? Well as previously shown, these would be such things as lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries [these would include belief in false dogma, practices and traditions including hero worship], of course it would not be limited to simply not doing these wrongs, but would require effort to counteract the effects of your previous wrongs such as exposing false dogma, starting to love your fellow man, and ceasing to live a hedonistic life style and warning others against such things as deviant sex, illegal drug use, and other debasing things.

    Remember:

    “ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9 AV). This should clearly behoove us to turn our life around. It should be clear that Almighty God (YHWH) takes no delight in those who refuse to do so. This is made clear, “11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. 13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. 14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; 15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. 16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.” (Ezekial 33:11-16 AV).
    DUE TO LENGTH GO TO:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=389147&messageid=1108509243&lp=1108509399

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  2. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,000
    Ratings:
    +1,057
    Have you explored the physcological basis for repentance? Wouldn't that provide a reason for inclusion in some religions and specifically Christianity? Repentance does not necessarily concern itself with sin.
     
  3. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi pah

    Obviously repentance concerns itself with sin since if one was without sin there would be no need for repentance.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  4. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,000
    Ratings:
    +1,057
    Repent has the meaning of regret, grieve for, or penance fo a sin. Two of these have nothing to do with sin. I would say you have given a partial answer. It is other than sin which definetly has a physcological factor. I'm asking if there is a physcological factor in Christianity's repentance.
     
  5. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi pah

    I am dealing with the Bible's usage of repent and not its usage in other ways so what I said is complete.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  6. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,000
    Ratings:
    +1,057
    I understand that
     
  7. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,748
    Ratings:
    +167
    Repentance is no problem to me. I think it is applicable only to instances of sin. Not believing in any Supreme Power, there is nothng I can sin against, so there is no need ever for repentance in the sense you discuss.

    Should I happen to do something that I find out goes against my philosophy of life, I hope I learn the lesson and try not to repeat that transgression. But sin? no; repentance? no.
     
  8. Performance Park

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    69
    Ratings:
    +7
    According to scripture it does. I have not looked at any psychological benefit to repentance, but there are obviously some that can be attributed just as there would be physical benefits to repentance. If I am addicted to crack, and repent (turn away from permanently) from this sin, I will benefit in numerous ways...:)
     
  9. BUDDY

    BUDDY User of Aspercreme

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,027
    Ratings:
    +485
    I believe the Biblical term repentence is better described as a to turn away and leave behind a particular act or attutude that is considered by the Bible as sin. I don't know about the psychological aspects of repentence, but I guess there would have to be because the nature of repentence deals with a change of heart and mind to not do those things any more.

    I do believe that there is a psychological factor where confession of sins (whether publically or privately in prayer) is concerned. I know that when I have admitted to being in the wrong on something, it feel like a heavy weight has been lifted off of me and my mind is clear to move on to other things.

    Hope this answers your questions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone

    The Bible shows at Romans 3:23 that all have sinned, "for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;" (American Standard Version; ASV).

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  11. Joannicius

    Joannicius Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    280
    Ratings:
    +21
    IMHO
    The psychological aspect of repentance is incomplete without forgiveness. When you attach forgiveness with repentance you have a clear conscience which frees us from guilt, fear and shame.
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    That sounds a bit like when Saddam Hussein appeared in court to have his charges against him read out, his reply being"I do not recognise the validity of this judicial system and therefore have nothing to answer to"
    How did that strike you - fair comment/ blind'ism':confused:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone

    May I remind all that my article starting this thread was on the Biblical meaning of repentance and not the psychological aspect of repentance.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  14. oracle

    oracle Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    502
    Ratings:
    +45
    -Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

    repentance

    There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance. (1.)
    The verb _metamelomai_ is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or
    even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word
    is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matt. 27:3).

    (2.) Metanoeo,
    meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge.
    This verb, with (3) the cognate noun _metanoia_, is used of true repentance, a
    change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised
    .
    Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and
    sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred
    of sin (Ps. 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2 Cor. 7:10) and turning from it to God; and
    (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way
    of his commandments. The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps. 51:4, 9), of
    pollution (51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21, 22). Thus he
    apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares
    him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an
    apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps. 51:1;
    130:4).

    True repentance is to change one's heart, not to feel remorseful. Feeling remorseful doesn't change anything. To me, it's an inner growth process, not a way to release guilt and shame.
    Sin is not condoned so that we may keep on sinning, but through a change of heart a multitude of our sins are made annul. Repentance is a change of mind and heart, to become selfless through loving kindness, and allow our lack of integrity and selfishness or egoism to subside, through which comes the cleansing of an evil conscious.

    We are born to make mistakes, but this sin does not lead to spiritual death, rather it is necassary for spiritual growth. When we lose integrity and truthfulness, when we are selfish
    and egoistic (an evil consciousness), This is sin that leads to spiritual death.
    Sin is committed inside the heart before sin is ever externally committed. A person is not made a sinner by their external actions (works), and a person is not made holy or righteous through the same. It is from the heart and mind that evil originates, and this is what makes us sinners. But when we repent, we allow the circumcission of the mind and heart, and our evil consciousness is washed away through love and forgiveness, and through our unity in which we are made one body through the blood of Jesus. Not on a literal sense which many Christians have been mistaken, but the "blood" and even baptismal water is symbolic of the spirit. [We are made one family through the spirit of God]. This is the original teachings of Jesus.

    This is not a new teaching, but a re-establishment of a
    traditonally old, mystical Judaic teaching, in which we each have a personal connection with God who is infinite, is everywhere and manifest in all things [in other words God's spirit]. The priests and pharisees of Jesus' time had become corrupt: They lacked integrity, were hypocritices, and were driven by things such as prideful indignation and self-gratification. They relied on traditions, sacrafices, legalistic dogma, their services, and external laws as a way of living a righteous and spiritual life, which led to the absence of true spirituality. The historical Jesus was a rabbi who opposed the dogma of the priests and pharisees at the time, creating a spiritual movement which was systematically disruptive for the priests and pharisees.

    Anyways, repentance as a way of releasing guilt
    and feeling remorse, does not lead to anything, but such is the repentance of Judas. This is not dissimilar to the sacrificial offerings of Jesus's time. Scapegoating [one that is made to bear the blame of others], does not lead to repentance. The crucifix of Jesus was not meant to be a sacrificial offering that condones sin. I believe that in early Christianity it was only seen as such in an abstract, symbolic way, however Paul emphasized it. I believe it is the life of Jesus that leads us to repentance, not his death.
     
  15. TeMpUs3R

    TeMpUs3R New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Ratings:
    +1
    Repentance must be performed because we must show God that we are sorry for what we have performed, and that we can recieve God's blessings, and help, not to perform these actions again.

    This is the way we accept His gift. When we do, certain outcomes are promised. If we don't, or we "turn back", alternate outcomes are promised.
     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    I repent all the time!

    Sometimes I even mean it! :D
     
  17. oracle

    oracle Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    502
    Ratings:
    +45
    To show God, or to show ourselves? God already knows whether or not if you're sorry. It's a matter of integrity and truthfulness, of self reflection and self contemplation, of accepting and realizing that our sinful behavior is wrong, and to have a change of heart. Grace is already given and is unconditional, for there is no grace in conditions, but God is self-sufficient. Condemnation is self-condemnation; the sufferings, the guilt, the shame, the alienation that we experience as the result of our own actions, It is the hate that causes self-destruction and dissension. Repenting in the manner of releasing guilt or shame alone changes nothing. Just because you feel like you've repented by releasing emotions, doesn't mean you've repented. Our emotions often become the self-deciever. Overall, It is a change of mind and heart that is shown through action, through loving kindness that we show upon others, and through truthfulness and integrity, resulting in a clear conscious. It is devotion not to self-will, but to the will of God. Good fruit does not grow from a bad tree, and bad fruit does not grow from a good tree.
     
  18. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Oracle

    It is a pleasure to once in awhile find an intelligent reply to something I have posted instead of foolishness as most responses are. Your reply was an excellent one as was the fact you used Eston's instead of giving your own opinion or rant. All should read your reply as follows:
     
Loading...