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Discourse on Fundamentalism:

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by iris89, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. brotherjim

    brotherjim Member

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    Hi Iris,

    First, let me thank and praise the Lord God that you were able to receive my last post in the Spirit of Love, Meekness and Peace from which [I allege] it came forth. And thank you, too.

    Since you seem both knowledgable and teachable--a rare combo, amen?: all glory to God and Grace--I may be able to offer some insight in regards to the above. But it must take of necessity a circuitous (sp??) explanation.

    We, whether Christian or not, have so vastly underestimated the power of pride and its resultant arrogance. We have not looked deep enough into it, never contemplating how Lucifer, who was wise far beyond the wisdom of mortals, could still fall prey to pride's destructiveness.

    I'll say it brief and blunt: unless someone receives a specific, supernatural/divine revelation regarding humankind's arrogance, they have little-to-no chance of what I'm saying here being profitable for them.

    [The above notwithstanding:]

    A good place to start might be Prov. 6:16-17, followed by asking God why He put FIRST on the list, pride's symptom: a haughty face (what we have all come to know as normaltive self-confidence), even ahead of murder among those things He hates most. Coincidence? Irrelevant [insofar as the order in which it was given]? I claim not.

    As such, then, God has worked into the Kingdom, various, ahhhh, ummmmmm. . . tensions. These are absolutely necessary from God's point of view, for they keep man from being puffed up more than he already is. Without them, God would be too greatly tempted to break His promise to Noah (satirical). We just have NOT A CLUE as to how God is unable to look upon our, especially Christian, haughtiness. It makes Him puke. (But I cannot say enough, for no matter how many expletives [oops!--sorry, wrong word] I use, someone still needs that revelation.)

    Okay, back to it (I haven't forgotten the point {-_-} ).

    One of the methods God incorporates into His economy to bring about these restrictions of man's propensity to pride, is by Him keeping us in the dark. Unless you are a someone who was force-fed the interpretation that "for now we see through a glass darkly" refers to the pre-New Testament time, then I can add that Scripture as a witness to what I'm saying here. God would LOVE to give each and every one of us, all His Wisdom and knowledge of Himself, but He cannot. WE restrict Him by our attitudes and susceptibilities. Kindly read and meditate upon the basic Christian principle of John 2:23-25, and catch a glimpse of how God fully knows how we take His stuff and strut it around before our peers like a peacock in heat. WE, WE, WE restrict God and what He can give us.

    So, if you can receive it, God has divied up His Truths into, say, 52 doctrines of the Bible (the title of, for me, an adult Sunday School textbook, btw). He numbers them 1 through 52, and to Iris He has revealed the Truths of #1, #2, #3, #16, #22, #39, etc. But to someone you are attempting to talk to, they have been given #1, #2, #3, #11, #29, #41, etc., i.e., their own set of doctrines. Hence we have charismatics who beat their head against the wall, totally unable to comprehend why the Evangelicals they speak to, show all the Scriptures to regarding it, etc., just don't see in the Word that there's a "second blessing." Likewise, the Sovereign Gracer attempts time and time again to show their Arminian neighbor--. And the converse of the above, perhaps {-_-}. [The above merely illustrative, of course. And the intellectual would likely staunchly disagree, for most approach the Bible as a literary work, and like any literary work believe its Truths can be disemminated through skullduggery and its various humanistic devices of intellectualism (reflexives, etymologies, etc., etc.). So such conclude that any man, if he is intelligent enough and studious enough and lives long enough, any man can learn all "52." And of course, if they lead, their congregations insist on it. Ah, pride.]

    And so on.

    All in God's time, "a time for every season," but above all, ALL in direct correlation to each man's level of pride and arrogance, or, from the other end, it's holy enemy, the degree of UNfeigned Meekness. [Growth in the knowledge of God, without a corresponding growth in the Graces of God, equals imbalance, and imbalances lead to self-destruction, or in tyhe least , disqualification. "Knowledge puffeth up . . . (but the balance of) Grace edifies."]

    (Ohhhhhhhh, how greatly we need also a revelation of Jesus' Meekness!!! [Not humility, but Meekness, the Fruit of the Spirit--2 diff. things.])

    Lastly is man's (forgive me, I'm old school, remember?), make that the human's natural tendency to commit the sin illustrated by Paul and John on the Mount of Transf. We take the things given to us by God, whether our New Birth experience or the enlightenment of some doctrine or whatever, and we build a temple of worship around it, from henceforth worshipping the holy thing created rather than the Creator Himself. (Can you handle this stuff? It IS harsh.) [And for those doctrines "of the 52" the Lord has not revealed to us, man insists on filling in the blanks through deductive reasoning, conjecture, presumption, common sense, adopting the studies of others, etc., and these, too, can easily become pet idols of the heart.] So when you attempt to show someone something contrary to a belief they have already stored as an idol in their heart, you are attempting the impossible (unless God intervenes, of course). Only God can miraculously deliver us from our hearts' idols (John the B's. "I must decrease. . . ."), and in fact commands that we allow Him to do so ["purify your hearts"; "sanctify . . . your hearts"].

    Well, I lied; REALLY finally:

    The pride thing also has a lot to do with the proclaimer.

    When we share a Truth with someone, or administer some blessing, or do whatever other positive-for-the-Lord thing, as we lay our head down on the pillow that night our Adversary begins his sermon. He's going to tell us how very wonderful we were that day. He may even paint portraits in our mind which somehow exalt us in our own eyes. He may, if we're Catholic, and only for example, clothe us with cardinals' robes or give us audience with the Pope (still in our fantasies, of course). See where I'm going?

    And we, because we love the things of flesh more than God, we will not tell the devil to shut up, at least not right away. We want to revel in the enjoyment of our accomplishments that day. Puff, puff, puff--.

    Guess how long it will be before someone will again receive some doctrinal Truth we attempt to share with them? [God just won't bless it; He cannot allow it to blow us, the proclaimer, out of the water.]

    The above is further illustrated by the "forgetful man" of James 1.

    "For by Grace are . . . so that no man can boast."

    [The entire Kingdom had to be designed around man's weakness of pride.]

    Whew! In His Love for you, Iris, all glory to Him (it's ALL Grace, for "apart from [Him, Jesus, we] can do NO THING"), bro. jim

    [email protected]

    [But I fortgot to add my all-time favorite reason, the following Scripture paraphrased according to such interpretations as Douay-Rhimes (sp?) and Young's Literal (et al.), and amplified according to the Wisdom I allege:

    ["The husbandman who labors must, FIRST, be partaker of the (FULLY RIPE) Fruits (of the Spirit and of Wisdom and of obedience)."

    [Kindly see my thread "The Only True, Apostolic Gospel . . ." for a further explanation.]

    [Edit additions for clarity, inserted within brackets throughout this post.]

    ["Who is sufficient for these things?"]
     
  2. brotherjim

    brotherjim Member

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    Iris,

    P.S. ABSOLUTE MUST-READS for you and the issue you raised - trust me please:

    1) There Were Two Trees in the Garden by Rick Joyner, Morningstar Publ. (very controversial author, btw, but this is likely the least controversial of his books).

    2) Reality; The Hope of Glory by Aaron (Art) Katz, also Morningstar Publ. or free on-line viewing at www.benisrael.org - much more academic than the above, and very hard to give it the concentration it needs if viewed on-line, in my opinion (the book is a small ppk. and prob. less than $10.), as he writes akin to William F. Buckley's complexity of style.

    Then, some day when you have A LOT of reading time: The Christian in Complete Armour [sic - OE] by William Gurnall, preferably abridged unless you REALLY love Elizabethean English, Banner of Truth Press. I started with Vol. 2 of the 3 Vols., and it turned out the best since it starts, like Art's book, quite slow; then I went to Vol. 1. But beware, these books will forever ruin you for anything but the Gospel of Christ Jesus (plagarized from the back cover of Art's book). But it seems as though you are already.

    Blessings, jim

    [Edit+: Oh, yeah, a quick-read booklet by Stephen E. Jones, The Purpose of the Wilderness [Journey], avail. through www.GodsKingdomMinistries.org, either free on-line or for a buck or two via snal mail. I found this booklet among my mother's belongings after her death, and it answered years of puzzlement.]
     
  3. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Just wanted to note that NetDoc has never behaved in anything less than a Christ-like manner, and that I don't think Christianity could find a better spokesperson than him. I try not to judge a religion by its individual members, but NetDoc has only ever made me think higher of his faith because of his participation in it.
     
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  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

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    Am I the only one who thinks that fundamentalism is a pathology?
     
  5. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi keevelish vbmenu_register("postmenu_85225", true);

    I agree that the word of God (YHWH), the Bible, it is the inerrant word of God as it is and should not tbe twisted or distorted. I believe the Bible is the Standard and have written an article to that effect which you can view at:

    STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5076

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  6. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi brotherjim

    FIRST, I write nothing out of pride, but as a part of fulfilling Jesus' (Yeshua's) commission at Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible).

    SECOND, I do not call others names as some do.

    THIRD, I am a realist as was my leader Jesus (Yeshua). I know most will not accept the truth and this is affirmed in the Bible as follows.
    First let's consider both Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:13-14, it is in both of these that the road followed by true believers would be narrow and cramped, Luke 13:24, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); And Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, abroad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (AV); thereby, clearly showing few would be entering the narrow gate "which leadeth unto life." In reality, it will be difficult for even true Christians to enter as testified to at 1 Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear." (AV). In order to enter, we must have the right sort of guide, Luke 1:79, "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." (AV). Now, if one picks the wrong group, just because it is popular or the so called 'one to belong to in a community' and not because of Bible Truths, there is an important warning given at Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (AV). In fact, being with the wrong group can mean you are NOT having fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as testified to at 1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not [have] the truth." (AV). This danger is made abundantly clear at Luke 12:32 when Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of his true followers as a little flock and not a large one, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." (AV). Simply stated, his true followers will be relatively few in number which should cause all sincere individuals to question whether mainstream religion with its vast membership is heading for the narrow gate!

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  7. brotherjim

    brotherjim Member

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    Whoever,

    Jesus' Meekness, exemplified:

    "And He answered not a word." John 19:9b
     
  8. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    Let's look at John 19:9 in context, John 19: ,7-15, "The Jews answered him: We have a law; and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. 8 When Pilate therefore had heard this saying, he feared the more. 9 And he entered into the hall again; and he said to Jesus: Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? Knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore, he that hath delivered me to thee hath the greater sin. 12 And from henceforth Pilate sought to release him. But the Jews cried out, saying: If thou release this man, thou art not Caesar’s friend. For whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar. 13 Now when Pilate had heard these words, he brought Jesus forth and sat down in the judgment seat, in the place that is called Lithostrotos, and in Hebrew Gabbatha. 14 And it was the parasceve of the pasch, about the sixth hour: and he saith to the Jews: Behold your king. 15 But they cried out: Away with him: Away with him: Crucify him. Pilate saith to them: shall I crucify your king? The chief priests answered: We have no king but Caesar." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  9. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    According to religiousforums.com rules, preaching/proselyting is a 'no no', hence verboten (forbidden).

    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/faq.php?
     
  10. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi t3gah

    I am just putting forth what is in the scriptures. If you will check, most of my writings are Sola Scripture., not denominationalized.


    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Do your thing iris...... unless you hear from someone who is a member of the ReligiousForums.com staff, your posts are just fine.

    Thanks for posting here.
    Scott
    Moderator Team
     
  12. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi SOGFPP

    Thanks for your vote of confidence. All I do is tell everyone what the scriptures say and make them known to all.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Ummmmmm..... to be clear, I think everything you've posted thus far is dead wrong and you go about it in a manner that is unbecoming for a Christian..... but as a Moderator, I defend your right to post it.

    Just had to clear that up.... t3gah does not speak for the Moderator Team.

    Scott
     
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  14. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi SOGFPP

    I know that you disagree with me on many things, but as you have with out question noticed, I write everything 'Sola Scripture' the most honest way of presenting Biblical facts, i.e., with the use of over 50% scripture. I do not post opinions and/or denominational crapola, but information and facts straight from the Bible, God's (YHWH's) word.

    I do not believe in posting opinions and/or engaging in debate as I believe both to be unbecoming for a true follower of our lord and savior, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ. I believe in only posting sound doctrine in keeping with Titus 2:1 and many other scriptures, "But speak thou the things that become sound doctrine:" (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).

    Also, I am sure you have noticed I do not discriminate against Catholic Bibles in my research products, but use them as well as many others. I am NOT one of those crapola opinionated individuals who says this or that Bible only is the Bible.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  15. hoomer

    hoomer Member

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    Fundys are Literalists...they cling to their dogma...be it the bibe the koran...the history of time written by stephen hawkins...or whatever.....when you asume that only your truth is THEE ONLY truth...then you are fundy.....you are closed minded....pitiful and need spanking...

    The DANGER of fundamentalism in any form is enforcing your beeifs upon another....to the point where people must be killed to believe.....Witness what is happening in Iraq....THOUSANDS are dying for the word freedom....freedom is a lie perpetuated by politics.....freedom is relative....sure I live in USA....am I free? dnt be stupid....can I goto supermarket naked?...can i BURN A flag on tv? Can I give up work and enjoy my life and keep a roof above my head? freedom is a lie....as is fundamentalism...which is living one's life in a cul de sac......Literalists..yawn
     
  16. hoomer

    hoomer Member

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    Oh and I forgot fundys are genrally so wrapped up in their dogma they are unable to think.....

    ie the book "spot goes to school" is the word of God....it is infallible....please read this

    to quote " doggie chow chapter4 verse 3 'and the spirt of spot says unto thee go forth and smite the dog fleas'"

    NO RELIGIOUS TEXT is menat to be taken literaly.....the bible is not a car manual...insert peg A into hole B to get everasting SPOTS......

    Allegory and symbolism are beyond fundys......to know God one must CONTEMPLATE God.....hoy texts enable us to do this.....they are shovels to dig a hole

    "the contents is irrelivant, its the affects of the content upon conciousness that matter"

    But lo..and Mickey said unto Minnnie...and they had much wine and enjoyed pluto

    Fundys are a bight on the earth and a danger to humanity...I say rise up and fight against SPOT and his followers.....

    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are
    so unlike your Christ."

    - Mahatma Gandhi
     
  17. brotherjim

    brotherjim Member

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    "Keevelish," I bumped this up for you.

    jim
     
  18. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Hoomer



    Your post of one of Gandhi’s statements is right on target,



    Today most people pay almost no attention to the real teachings of Christ or what it means to be his footstep followers and Gandhi experienced this first hand from a mainstream fundamentalist church, The Dutch Reform Church. The like most mainstream religions claim to be foot step followers of Jesus (Yeshua), but in reality they are anything but. The fact is that more wars started in so called Christian nations and by so called Christian nations than by all others combined, such wars as the Crusades, the thirty war of religion, WWI, WW2, the Boer War, and on and on without end; however, Christ is the Prince of Peace per Isaiah 9:6-7, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.” (Revised Standard Version; RSV).



    Why this seeming contradiction, because most who claim to be Christian are that in name only, but in reality are NOT following in the footsteps of him whom they claim is their leader. Instead they are following the creeds and false doctrines of men such as the Trinity, ever virginity of Mary, Apostolic Succession, etc. because they do not realize who they are actually being led by as shown in 2 Corinthians 4:4, “In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God.” (RSV).



    Some of these groups even brag of their large memberships, completely forgetting that Christ said his true followers would be a small flock. In fact, In considering whether the mainstream groups of Christianity are correct in belief or in serious error, one needs to consider several scriptures in the new testament showing the Truth with respect what God (YHWH) has to say through inspired writers and then reflect back to how this would apply to mainstream Christianity to which most so called Christians belong. First let's consider both Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:13-14, it is in both of these that the road followed by true believers would be narrow and cramped, Luke 13:24, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); And Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, abroad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (AV); thereby, clearly showing few would be entering the narrow gate "which leadeth unto life." In reality, it will be difficult for even true Christians to enter as testified to at 1 Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear." (AV). In order to enter, we must have the right sort of guide, Luke 1:79, "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." (AV). Now, if one picks the wrong group, just because it is popular or the so called 'one to belong to in a community' and not because of Bible Truths, there is an important warning given at Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (AV). In fact, being with the wrong group can mean you are NOT having fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as testified to at 1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not [have] the truth." (AV). This danger is made abundantly clear at Luke 12:32 when Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of his true followers as a little flock and not a large one, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." (AV). Simply stated, his true followers will be relatively few in number which should cause all sincere individuals to question whether mainstream religion with its vast membership is heading for the narrow gate!



    For more information either write me or go to the following resources for the facts:



    Trinity, the Facts

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/388928



    and,



    Mainstream Religion and the Trinity Myth

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388928&messageid=1108469292&lp=1108489334



    and,



    TRUE CHRISTIANS VS COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANS:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/390021



    and,



    Intolerance And Other Nasty Things

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/392632



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89 ( [email protected] )
     
  19. magnolia

    magnolia Member

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    what do YOU believe, Iris?
     
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