Discerning the voice of God from delusion?

[Spiderman]

So the spirit of God lives inside us... This means that some of our Inspirations and thoughts are given to us from this spirit... Some of what we think is our own thoughts and meditations is actually coming to us from a power greater than ourselves. Now if only there were a foolproof way to discern which is which.

So that's great, I have a teacher living within me... So do you!

However, wouldn't you say that if a person suffers from delusions like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, their ability to discern this voice is extremely harmed if not removed all together?

What tips would you give such a person on how to discern which is which?

 

[Spiderman]

I've seen , heard, met, and read about religious people that were obviously delusional. It was just completely obvious.

I want to do whatever is in my power to not fall into that category and help others do the same... I used to trust what was in the heart as coming from God... lost faith in that...

 

[Mister Silver]

A man can claim to hear any voice in his head that is not attributed to god, and he is considered delusional. He'll be thrown into the psyche ward where he can receive treatment if he proves to be a danger to himself and others around him.

Yet, we have created this terrible system for ourselves where a man who specifically identifies the voice in his head as belonging to god is then viewed as divinely inspired and religious by the majority who also believe the same thing. The fallacy is called Argumentum ad populum; just because the majority accept it, does not mean it is reasonably valid.

From my personal perspective, anyone who claims to hear the voice of god is delusional.

 

[PureX]

So the spirit of God lives inside us... This means that some of our Inspirations and thoughts are given to us from this spirit... Some of what we think is our own thoughts and meditations is actually coming to us from a power greater than ourselves. Now if only there were a foolproof way to discern which is which.

So that's great, I have a teacher living within me... So do you!

However, wouldn't you say that if a person suffers from delusions like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, their ability to discern this voice is extremely harmed if not removed all together?

What tips would you give such a person on how to discern which is which?

I don't think divine inspiration comes to us in the form of a "voice". It's more like an instinctual disposition toward love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. My advice would be to ignore the "voices", and stick with the positive instinctual inclinations.

 

[Father Heathen]

This reminds me of a koan:

-A young wife fell sick and was about to die. "I love you so much," she told her husband, "I do not want to leave you. Do not go from me to any other woman. If you do, I will return as a ghost and cause you endless trouble."

Soon the wife passed away. The husband respected her last wish for the first three months, but then he met another woman and fell in love with her. They became engaged to be married.

Immediately after the engagement a ghost appeared every night to the man, blaming him for not keeping his promise. The ghost was clever too. She told him exactly what had transpired between himself and his new sweetheart. Whenever he gave his fiancee a present, the ghost would describe it in detail. She would even repeat conversations, and it so annoyed the man that he could not sleep. Someone advised him to take his problem to a Zen master who lived close to the village. At length, in despair, the poor man went to him for help.

"Your former wife became a ghost and knows everything you do, " commented the master. "Whatever you do or say, whatever you give your beloved, she knows. She must be a very wise ghost. Really you should admire such a ghost. The next time she appears, bargain with her. Tell her that she knows so much you can hide nothing from her, and that if she will answer you one question, you promise to break your engagement and remain single."

"What is the question I must ask her?" inquired the man.

The master replied: "Take a large handful of soy beans and ask her exactly how many beans you hold in your hand. If she cannot tell you, you will know that she is only a figment of your imagination and will trouble you no longer."

The next night, when the ghost appeared the man flattered her and told her that she knew everything.

"Indeed," replied the ghost, "and I know you went to see that Zen master today."

"And since you know so much," demanded the man, "tell me how many beans I hold in this hand!"

There was no longer any ghost to answer the question.-​

 

[Mister Silver]

This reminds me of a koan:

-A young wife fell sick and was about to die. "I love you so much," she told her husband, "I do not want to leave you. Do not go from me to any other woman. If you do, I will return as a ghost and cause you endless trouble."

Soon the wife passed away. The husband respected her last wish for the first three months, but then he met another woman and fell in love with her. They became engaged to be married.

Immediately after the engagement a ghost appeared every night to the man, blaming him for not keeping his promise. The ghost was clever too. She told him exactly what had transpired between himself and his new sweetheart. Whenever he gave his fiancee a present, the ghost would describe it in detail. She would even repeat conversations, and it so annoyed the amn that he could not sleep. Someone advised him to take his problem to a Zen master who lived close to the village. At length, in despair, the poor man went to him for help.

"Your former wife became a ghost and knows everything you do, " commented the master. "Whatever you do or say, whatever you give your beloved, she knows. She must be a very wise ghost. Really you should admire such a ghost. The next time she appears, bargain with her. Tell her that she knows so much you can hide nothing from her, and that if she will answer you one question, you promise to break your engagement and remain single."

"What is the question I must ask her?" inquired the man.

The master replied: "Take a large handful of soy beans and ask her exactly how many beans you hold in your hand. If she cannot tell you, you will know that she is only a figment of your imagination and will trouble you no longer."

The next night, when the ghost appeared the man flattered her and told her that she knew everything.

"Indeed," replied the ghost, "and I know you went to see that Zen master today."

"And since you know so much," demanded the man, "tell me how many beans I hold in this hand!"

There was no longer any ghost to answer the question.-​

I was almost going to argue about the ending, but that seems to be one smart zen master.

Logically, if the man counted how many beans he had in his hand before closing it into a fist, the ghost would know the answer since the ghost is merely a byproduct of the man's imagination.

Since the zen master simply referred to "a handful", I am assuming the man did not count how many beans were in his hand before closing it into a fist, correct?

 

[pearl]

I agree, God does not speak words. I think any authenticity must be judged by its fruits. And that's where our own idea of God may present a problem.

 

[Muslim-UK]

I think given your medical history and current medication, it would be best to run any information you receive from internal 'spirits' past family or friends before acting on any instructions

 

[PureX]

I agree, God does not speak words. I think any authenticity must be judged by its fruits. And that's where our own idea of God may present a problem.

Yup. Angry men tend to believe in angry gods that then justify their expressions of anger. Vengeful men tend to believe in vengeful gods that inspire them to acts of vengeance. Whereas kind men tend to believe in kind gods that admonish them to act kindly toward others. So the gods we gravitate toward tend to reflect our own inclinations, and then to justify and reinforce them if we choose to 'believe'.

Which is why the question of believing in a god should be secondary to the question of what kind of god one presumes to be their option.

 

[Spiderman]

Yup. Angry men tend to believe in angry gods, that justify their expressions of anger. Vengeful men tend to believe in vengeful gods that inspire them to acts of vengeance. Whereas kind men tend to believe in kind gods that admonish them to act kindly toward others. So the gods we gravitate toward tend to reflect our own inclinations, and then to justify and reinforce them.

Which is why the question of believing in a god should be secondary to the question of what kind of god one presumes to be their option.

Sad but true!

 

[sayak83]

So the spirit of God lives inside us... This means that some of our Inspirations and thoughts are given to us from this spirit... Some of what we think is our own thoughts and meditations is actually coming to us from a power greater than ourselves. Now if only there were a foolproof way to discern which is which.

So that's great, I have a teacher living within me... So do you!

However, wouldn't you say that if a person suffers from delusions like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, their ability to discern this voice is extremely harmed if not removed all together?

What tips would you give such a person on how to discern which is which?

Read this
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ory-hallucinations-yield-clues-to-perception/

If one is suffering from forms of psychiatric illness, they should tell what they are hearing in their psychology therapy sessions. That way one covers all bases.

 

[Mark Dohle]

So the spirit of God lives inside us... This means that some of our Inspirations and thoughts are given to us from this spirit... Some of what we think is our own thoughts and meditations is actually coming to us from a power greater than ourselves. Now if only there were a foolproof way to discern which is which.

So that's great, I have a teacher living within me... So do you!

However, wouldn't you say that if a person suffers from delusions like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, their ability to discern this voice is extremely harmed if not removed all together?

What tips would you give such a person on how to discern which is which?

The only I can thinkk of is this. If the 'inspiration' is urgent, compelling, compulsive, it is best to ignore. Or fearful as well. I would say God's voice is gentle, since we have free will and are free to choose.

 

[Spiderman]

The only I can thinkk of is this. If the 'inspiration' is urgent, compelling, compulsive, it is best to ignore. Or fearful as well. I would say God's voice is gentle, since we have free will and are free to choose.

Would you say everything that happens to us happens for a reason?

It's weird , I did something really stupid that broke multiple bones and tore up my knees , which required multiple surgeries and a lot of humiliation, but I believe even that made me a better person. It has also led to a testimony that helps me to help others or Inspire others... Was it supposed to happen for the greater good? I often wonder... It seems many of the mistakes I make are learning experiences that help me grow.

They also keep me humble, and help me to be more patient and understanding of the faults of others... If I was perfect and didn't make mistakes, I would likely be proud, judgmental , and egotistical. Great mistakes and great humiliations, have perfected the virtue of humility.

In the end, simply don't know, but even the current city I live in is the result of a mistake and a sin, but have received signs that I'm living right where I'm supposed to be. Idk

 

[Mark Dohle]

I do believe that our choices define us, perhaps that is one reason we are here, to face life, choose and become what we become. I do think there is chaos in our lives, but deeper down, I do believe there is something way beyond our ability to understand going on. I do think we are called to grow in love, but in the sense of "Agape", which is achieved by our also making acts of trust in God's love and mercy, no matter what state we find ourselves in.

Peace
Mark

 

[sun rise]

I don't think divine inspiration comes to us in the form of a "voice". It's more like an instinctual disposition toward love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. My advice would be to ignore the "voices", and stick with the positive instinctual inclinations.

Even those who don't have a psychiatric issue are well advised to do this. This is the only advice I know of which is universally true for everyone in every situation.