Disarming the Police. Would it work?

[Shadow Wolf]

no seriously.....a wanna be cop would need a death wish

enforce the law?......by hand?

Yeah. A lot of what they get called to doesn't need violence and can be deescalated peacefully. But Billy ****** with a badge shows up to a call involving someone mentally ill, things are settled by the time the cop shows up, but piggly-wiggly arrives, reescalates the situation, and shoots dead a mentally ill person.
That happens a lot.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

no seriously.....a wanna be cop would need a death wish

enforce the law?......by hand?

Not really. The force could be brought on-site in case of escalation. And the terms would be that once that force was put in play, all bets are off. If they had to call in "SWAT" for example, then the public persons involved would know they were on their own, and again - as stated on the website linked, the public would need to be on board with this. If it got to a point where the use of force were approved by some authority - the police chief for example - then that escalation means that certain risks to perpetrators safety are necessarily in play.

So, your best bet would be to deal with the cops in front of you - otherwise you bring a crap-storm on yourself. And the police would need to function somewhat differently, obviously - such that officers were always in pairs at the very least, and in situations suspected of requiring escalation, you'd ideally send two cars of police, such that someone could always call-in the escalation request if necessary.

In the U.S. I admit it would take quite a while for the public to get used to the idea and how it functioned... and at first it would be a hard sell, and we would possibly see people taking advantage of what they know is an unarmed front-line for a time. I honestly don't know if the U.S. is beyond the point of hope on this point. Could be, I suppose.

 

[Suave]

Yeah. A lot of what they get called to doesn't need violence and can be deescalated peacefully. But Billy ****** with a badge shows up to a call involving someone mentally ill, things are settled by the time the cop shows up, but piggly-wiggly arrives, reescalates the situation, and shoots dead a mentally ill person.
That happens a lot.

I'd rather each police officer be accompanied with a professional psychologist instead of being accompanied by somebody who does not understand how to handle a mentally ill person.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd rather each police officer be accompanied with a professional psychologist instead of being accompanied by somebody who does not understand how to handle a mentally ill person.

For such calls it should only be those trained in mental health showing up. Regular police have more than adequately demonstrated they are beyond inept and miserably fail in these situations. They've shown they really can't even be trusted to make the right decisions while dealing with someone with mental illnesses or someone who is in crises.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So the threat to liberty - and plain ol' life and limb - of police shootings is a necessary effect of arming the populace?

No, there is a solution. But it is going to cost some money. Cities have been trying to get by on the cheap and as a result there are consequences.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'd rather each police officer be accompanied with a professional psychologist instead of being accompanied by somebody who does not understand how to handle a mentally ill person.

Cities are already too cheap to properly staff the police in their cities. Low pay and undertraining has consequences. If they won't pay enough for police what do you think that the odds are that they will add even more expensive staff?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Police are killing unarmed people. I don't see the connection.

In a nation with an heavily armed population the police have to assume that anyone they come in contact with may be armed, which is why so many police are killing unarmed people.

 

[oldbadger]

Our Position

Thoughts?

In a country full of guns the police need body armour and guns. Oh, and you could toughen up their patrol vehicles as well.

But they need better training, training reviews, regular counselling, better management.

 

[Suave]

Cities are already too cheap to properly staff the police in their cities. Low pay and undertraining has consequences. If they won't pay enough for police what do you think that the odds are that they will add even more expensive staff?

Cities are already too cheap to properly staff the police in their cities. Low pay and undertraining has consequences. If they won't pay enough for police what do you think that the odds are that they will add even more expensive staff?

Perhaps we should urge our Congressional representatives to have the American Jobs Plan include funding for professional psychologists serving as public safety officers on behalf of local communities.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Cities are already too cheap to properly staff the police in their cities. Low pay and undertraining has consequences. If they won't pay enough for police what do you think that the odds are that they will add even more expensive staff?

Some have (I forget what cities exactly). Many of these mental health officers rarely make any arrests. They talk things out. They attempt to help people link them to resources to help them. Things don't get violent, they don't get out of hand, and they aren't executing people.
It is very clearly the way to go to address some of the issues with the police.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps we should urge our Congressional representatives to have the American Jobs Plan include funding for professional psychologists serving as public safety officers on behalf of local communities.

More help is needed from some quarter.

 

[Thief]

Yeah. A lot of what they get called to doesn't need violence and can be deescalated peacefully. But Billy ****** with a badge shows up to a call involving someone mentally ill, things are settled by the time the cop shows up, but piggly-wiggly arrives, reescalates the situation, and shoots dead a mentally ill person.
That happens a lot.

well.....if you want the badge......
otherwise

someone has to go get the bad guy

 

[Thief]

Not really. The force could be brought on-site in case of escalation. And the terms would be that once that force was put in play, all bets are off. If they had to call in "SWAT" for example, then the public persons involved would know they were on their own, and again - as stated on the website linked, the public would need to be on board with this. If it got to a point where the use of force were approved by some authority - the police chief for example - then that escalation means that certain risks to perpetrators safety are necessarily in play.

who gets to make the line drawn?
is there paper work?

so......tell the bad guy.....freeze
and he will stand there until someone gets the paperwork done

 

[Shadow Wolf]

well.....if you want the badge......
otherwise

someone has to go get the bad guy

Why? Why should it ever be acceptable that having a "bad guy" in the situation in necessary?
Cops are jerks who escalate situations, and innocent people get killed. They bark complicated orders, they ask confusing questions, and if you have headphones on and a hood covering them and don't hear the police, they shoot you dead because you walked away not even being aware what was happening. Have a mental illness? They can be abusive jerks who mistreat people and re-escalate a situation, and someone needlessly is butchered. Have a disorder that impairs communication? They're going to assume you're intoxicated and then the situation becomes stressful. They're such arselings they'll tase elderly people with Alzheimer's and shoot people who are manic.

 

[oldbadger]

someone has to go get the bad guy

True, who hopefully was more carefully chosen, vetted, trained, field trained, training reviewed, regularly counselled and internally policed.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

There are reasons why other nations who used to not arm the police now do so.

Training and education are the issues; not the guns.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

who gets to make the line drawn?
is there paper work?

so......tell the bad guy.....freeze
and he will stand there until someone gets the paperwork done

It gets radio'ed in, obviously. Just like happens now when the police find themselves in over their heads... they call for backup.

 

[Thief]

It gets radio'ed in, obviously. Just like happens now when the police find themselves in over their heads... they call for backup.

would it not be great.......never having to be the one to lay hold of the bad guy
never see that 'flinch'......and you should have drawn your weapon

cops don't let you back in the vehicle

very unforunate the pistol grip was much the same ......taser vs firearm

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

would it not be great.......never having to be the one to lay hold of the bad guy
never see that 'flinch'......and you should have drawn your weapon

cops don't let you back in the vehicle

very unforunate the pistol grip was much the same ......taser vs firearm

You may want to try writing for clarity. I can't make heads or tails of a single thing you are trying to convey here.

 

[Ponder This]

I'm sure it's already employed.

It is. Guns are also "already employed". So... what is "Our Position" on the knee on back? It's the same right? Police should not use a knee on the back.