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Disagreements over how/when to reopen schools

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
And? You’re talking apples and oranges. We are being asked to teach both online and in person simultaneously. Literally simultaneously. And not just classes well suited for online. ALL classes, even those not practical for being taught online.

Yeah, I have taught online classes longer than I care to admit for fear of being called a dinosaur. What is happening now isn’t “just” doing it online. It is so much more. It’s teaching online and teaching live and doubling the lesson plans and preparation needed (both formats need their own materials) and dealing with continuously changing policies and dealing with health issues and not having the needed tools such as enough computer resources. And many other things.

Oh, and what about all the teachers that haven’t been trained to teach online? Got a magic wand to train all those teachers in the next couple of weeks?

I'm sure it's not easy to prepare for doing both at the same time. I'd recommend that they either do all online or if they decide to go face to face, give the teacher/professor the option to do either all face to face or all online. The hybrid classes I'm sure are confusing.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm sure it's not easy to prepare for doing both at the same time. I'd recommend that they either do all online or if they decide to go face to face, give the teacher/professor the option to do either all face to face or all online. The hybrid classes I'm sure are confusing.
It is one of the many requirements from the state, believe it or not. :(
 

ecco

Veteran Member
"Many countries today claim to be democracies, but if the citizens are not involved in government and politics, they are democratic in name only. Some governments are more democratic than others, but systems cannot be considered truly democratic unless the meet certain criteria:" -- from Comparing Governments [ushistory.org]

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This was a discussion about elected Governors, mayors and school board officials in 2020 in the US putting children at risk by reopening schools. In response you claim that unelected people do the same and, to justify that comment, you post a list of unelected dictators.

I guess the term "context" is unknown to you.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The reason republicans want schools is to open falls back on privatizing education. Republicans despise public education funding, they feel that money should go to private schools, religious schools, etc.
So IOW, republicans and their pro-corporate education agenda is losing money while students aren't there. It's all about corporations losing money. It's not about the kids.
two-thumbs-up.jpg
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Hi I'm Mike, I attended online college.

That'll always look impressive to an employer.

Hi I'm Mike, I attended Harvard online.

That will always look impressive to an employer.

In any case, it may be the whole classes of 2021, 2022 who have degrees earned partially or completely online.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I think the trade-off is between giving the kids an adequate education, on the one hand, and placing them at risk of contracting a virus that could potentially leave them scarred for life -- and even shorten their life spans, on the other hand.

Doesn't that trade-off also exist during flu season? You know that more kids have died from the flu this year in the US than from COVID, right? Don't get me wrong--I'm in favor of some schools going online. But that would also be a good idea to protect kids from the flu as well.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
This was a discussion about elected Governors, mayors and school board officials in 2020 in the US putting children at risk by reopening schools. In response you claim that unelected people do the same and, to justify that comment, you post a list of unelected dictators.

I guess the term "context" is unknown to you.
I lost the context.
 

averageJOE

zombie
Even if schools are "reopened" parents are not obligated in any way to send them. It's called homeschooling. Something that would they would be doing anyways if schools remained closed, either through their current school or another means.

After reading what my kids schools will be doing, I'm not sending them back.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think the trade-off is between giving the kids an adequate education, on the one hand, and placing them at risk of contracting a virus that could potentially leave them scarred for life -- and even shorten their life spans, on the other hand.
That's the false dilemma being pitched by American politicians. There's a third option: online learning from home.

They're ignoring this option because everything involved - getting reliable internet to the poor, ensuring every student has their own laptop or tablet, and providing income support to the parents who have to stay home - costs money that they don't want to spend (on that).
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
While it may be “doable” it is no small job. And there is a huge price involved! That price will be paid most grievously by the students.
Seems to me that while this statement is true for teaching online, it applies even more to teaching in person during this pandemic.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And? You’re talking apples and oranges. We are being asked to teach both online and in person simultaneously. Literally simultaneously. And not just classes well suited for online. ALL classes, even those not practical for being taught online.
It would certainly be very difficult to teach, say, music online.

It would be almost as difficult as teaching music in person when all of a school's music teachers - and many of the students - have been hospitalized with a life-threatening disease.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Even if schools are "reopened" parents are not obligated in any way to send them. It's called homeschooling. Something that would they would be doing anyways if schools remained closed, either through their current school or another means.

After reading what my kids schools will be doing, I'm not sending them back.
Sure... that will be an option for two-parent households that can afford to live on one income.

It won't be an option for the vast majority of single parents, or families where both parents have to work to make ends meet.

This pandemic has already had a disproportionate impact on the poor, and reopening schools will make this worse.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Seems to me that while this statement is true for teaching online, it applies even more to teaching in person during this pandemic.
I disagree. It would be easier to teach in person using safe procedures than to teach both on line and in person simultaneously.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I disagree. It would be easier to teach in person using safe procedures than to teach both on line and in person simultaneously.
I think you may have misunderstood my position. I don't think teaching should be in-person at all right now, so I certainly don't think you should have to teach both online and in person.

Edit: at whatever school you teach at, what percentage of the faculty - full time or supply - do you think would have to be off sick at the same time before the quality of teaching was compromised? Just a ballpark.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It would certainly be very difficult to teach, say, music online.

It would be almost as difficult as teaching music in person when all of a school's music teachers - and many of the students - have been hospitalized with a life-threatening disease.
The hospitalization rate for school age child COVID 19 cases is extremely small. The truth is there is no evidence that they would be at any greater risk in school than at home. For example, in Arizona the total number of COVID 19 related deaths of those under 20 years old is 8. That is out of the state death total of 2237. Those 8 children, I would suspect, had other underlying health issues. With reasonable precautions healthy school age children would not be endangered. Alarmism not withstanding.

The simply fact is 75% of the deaths have been by those over 65 years old. Maybe we should close senior living facilities before the schools.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The hospitalization rate for school age child COVID 19 cases is extremely small.
This must be a strange school you attend if the teachers are school-aged.

The truth is there is no evidence that they would be at any greater risk in school than at home.
Nonsense.

For example, in Arizona the total number of COVID 19 related deaths of those under 20 years old is 8. That is out of the state death total of 2237. Those 8 children, I would suspect, had other underlying health issues. With reasonable precautions healthy school age children would not be endangered. Alarmism not withstanding.
What do you think is an acceptable number of children dead?

The simply fact is 75% of the deaths have been by those over 65 years old. Maybe we should close senior living facilities before the schools.
Have you ever met a child who has contact with people over 65?
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think you may have misunderstood my position. I don't think teaching should be in-person at all right now, so I certainly don't think you should have to teach both online and in person.

Edit: at whatever school you teach at, what percentage of the faculty - full time or supply - do you think would have to be off sick at the same time before the quality of teaching was compromised? Just a ballpark.
There is no evidence that students would be more at risk of contracting COVID 19 at school than at home. Indeed the opposite could well be argued. And since it is quite clear that in person teaching is more effective for educating children then in person teaching should be in the best interests of the students.

Your question is poorly designed. Any reduction of faculty due to illness compromises the quality of teaching. It is a matter of degree. But illness among staff is nothing new. It is a perennial issue and we address it at the school where I teach. The question is a red herring. As a responsible institution we have plans for addressing such a contingency should it arise. Hypotheses non fingo.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This must be a strange school you attend if the teachers are school-aged.


Nonsense.


What do you think is an acceptable number of children dead?


Have you ever met a child who has contact with people over 65?
Schools have been shutdown. The children that have contracted, and died, from it got it elsewhere, likely at home. Therefore to have fewer deaths among children they may well be safer in a school than at home.

The best evidence is that children get COVID 19 from adults. There is much much less likelihood of an adult getting it from a child. The evidence supports the premise that children are not the primary vectors for the virus. The 65 year olds didn’t get the virus from the grand children. They got it from the adults in their lives.
 
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