[DIR] Gaslighting Mystical Experiences

[Quintessence]

Mystical/religious/spiritual experiences are part of many different traditions and practices. They are preternatural occurrences or something extraordinary that happens to us. In the context of religion, this could mean communication with the gods, practicing spellcraft or divination, involvement with the occult, and so on. Throughout history, mystical experiences have mostly been accepted or regarded as common. In the contemporary West, however, we are taught to shun such experiences. If someone shares a mystical experience, they must be lying to get attention, under the influence of substances, mentally ill, or have some other fault that allows us to dismiss what they are saying. Put another way, our culture engages in aggressive gaslighting when it comes to mystical experiences.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation or mind control that seeks to sow doubt in someone or make them question their sanity. It's specific goal is to delegitimize the victim's beliefs. This is done incessantly to the spiritual and religious who have remarkable experiences; so much so that most of us hesitate to talk about it at all or even gaslight ourselves about it. It's a problem that isn't going to go away any time soon, and I thought I'd give us a space to discuss this a bit. If you've ever had mystical experiences and found yourself to be a victim of gaslighting, you are welcome to share your experiences and advice here.

This thread is inspired in part by an essay I read that has some good advice to share on how we can learn to trust our mystical experiences in a culture that constantly gaslights us. The following list of tips is inspired by that essay (see the full article here - Learning to Trust Your Experiences):

1. Know yourself. Being aware of your own skills and biases is critical when it comes to being discerning with our mystical experiences. For example, if you know your inner voice well it's pretty easy to tell when a voice is your own and when it might be one of the gods or a spirit.
2. Put interpretation on hold. It's normal for us to immediately start interpreting our experiences, but with mystical experiences it is very important to step back and simply observe without judging. Resist the urge to immediately label and categorize your experience, especially if it's a new and unfamiliar one.
3. Consider ordinary causes. Thinking about mundane explanations is always a good call when it comes to mystical experiences. Gaslighters will often point at this in particular as a way to invalidate our experiences, so if you've already given it due consideration, it builds self-trust.
4. Know your values. When you start getting into interpretation, knowing your virtues and values is key as it shapes your approach. This serves as a check against influences from mystical sources that might be lying or not have you (or others) best interests at heart.
5. Experience helps. The more you have mystical experiences, the more you are able to trust yourself to be discerning in approaching them. It's like riding a bike - the first few times it's rough but after a while you can and do get the hang of it.
6. Mental health is a spectrum. Nobody has perfect mental health, but if you have no history of hallucinations, odds are what you experienced wasn't one. Mystical experiences and mental health challenges are not mutually exclusive... but navigating both at the same time is difficult.

How have you approached your own mystical experiences in a culture that frequently gaslights them? When others have gaslighted you, how have you responded? What wisdom might you have to share on navigating mystical experiences and the frequent attempts to delegitimize them in our culture?

Please note I put this thread in this DIR for two reasons: (1) I want this to be a safe space for the victims of gaslighting to discuss their experiences with it; (2) this DIR is inclusive of anyone who has had mystical experiences and wants to discuss them. In other words, I've zero interest in pandering to gaslighters in this thread and welcome thoughts from LHP occultists, Christian mystics, paranormal witnesses, Pagan oracles, atheist seers, shamanic practitioners, spellcasters, or anyone else who has experienced weird and wonderful things. I may or may not create a sister thread on this topic in a debate area, but if someone else wants to, you have my permission.

 

[Windwalker]

Hmmm.... I'm not so sure I like the term gaslighting to label what I hear you describing. What you are talking about is general disbelief and/or dismissal of someone's claims as "just crazy" or whatnot. They aren't trying to make you believe you are insane in order to manipulate you, which is what gaslighting is. This is a great explanation of gaslighting, and I don't quite sit in fitting in here in this context of general dismissal. The highpoints of gaslighting from the Psychology Today article are:

1. They tell blatant lies.
2. They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.
3. They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.
4. They wear you down over time.
5. Their actions do not match their words.
6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.
7. They know confusion weakens people.
8. They project.
9. They try to align people against you.
10. They tell you or others that you are crazy.
11. They tell you everyone else is a liar.

While number 10 might pertain, none of the rest would normally apply to those who doubt these claims. (All of them however do apply to our current POTUS, IMO, FYI).

Why people may be dismissive is because it is natural for people to doubt claims that are outside their own experiences. It could frighten them. It could challenge their beliefs and threaten their perceived stability in their worldviews. ETC.

Personally, I've not had anyone try to tell me I was nuts for my experiences. My experiences have been too overwhelmingly and undeniably real, and have been completely life changing. If some little wannabe skeptic were to say to me I was insane, I just simply know better.

 

[sun rise]

St. Teresa of Avila had her experiences questioned and I believe she was not the only one.

I also think the 6 points in the OP are helpful.

And like @Windwalker I would not use the word "gaslight" for the reasons that were outlined.

 

[Quintessence]

@Windwalker - you might be correct that using the term "gaslighting" is overblown. I wouldn't be the one to make that call, honestly, but there might be something I didn't quite communicate well in the opening post in that regard. It is important to recognize that gaslighting in interpersonal relationships (what that article was about) is not going to look the same as in other contexts. Seems to me the net effect of a culture that is usually naysaying your experiences when they are preternatural is basically trying to normalize you to some other way of thinking about it. That's manipulation, right? Trying to convert someone to another worldview by making them second-guess themselves?

 

[Enoch07]

I don't care about someone denying any mystical/religious experience I have ever had. It's my experience, I don't need your validation.

What I do care about is the Narcissistic Sociopaths that employ this tactic on a daily basis, so that they can manipulate you into serving them. Which is exponentially amplified by the epidemic of narcissism that has taken over our modern culture. Being a narcissist has become the norm and because of that hardly anyone has noticed.

 

[MNoBody]

conform or be cast out, seems to hold true in most places
and the term gaslighting is not inappropriate....the whole culture exerts a peer pressure to stick to the accepted values and narrative, and may the force be with anyone who says otherwise, as people act as if they had their amygdala hijacked and they become defensive, often just upon hearing about something outside the narrative stream they inhabit.
I have grown reserved in sharing my experiences to most people I meet just out of sheer pragmatism.
yet we will never solve the mystery if we shut witness's out and denigrate their commentary
the fact of martyrs and the countless victims of censorship reveals that man has a big problem