1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Difference in wages between men and women's jobs

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Me Myself, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

    Messages:
    18,860
    [youtube]IMkDEe8ypfU[/youtube]
    YouTube


    I found that interesting. Which is your posture on the issue?
     
  2. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Messages:
    16,319
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism
    LMAO.... :biglaugh:



    EDIT: Okay, I can breathe now. I guess this is what happens when one develops the most shallow understanding of income disparity and the methods and studies that have determined discrimination in the workplace.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  3. Draka

    Draka Cylon Skin Job

    Messages:
    16,346
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Not always a myth. While she may have point about what kind of jobs pay higher and lower, that doesn't mean that there aren't cases where women and men are paid differently for the same work. For example, a local hardware store here employs both men and women to work as sales people on its sales floor. Each person, regardless of gender, have the same types of duties. Stocking shelves, helping customers, inventory, and so on. The owner has notoriously paid the men who work there more than the women. Even newly hired college boys make more than women who have worked there for over 10 years. His supposed reasoning? Who knows? Maybe he thinks the men are more valuable because even though the women are more knowledgeable the customers would rather speaks to a man??? Or maybe he just values men more.

    Point is, this can't just be a one place thing in the country. He's not the only person doing this. The issue is not with two people having two different jobs having two different levels of income. The issue is two people doing the exact same job and having two different levels of income with the only difference being their genitals.
     
  4. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

    Messages:
    18,860
    He must not be the only one indeed. I was looking it up, and there IS a gap when comparing the same jobs. Is usually around 10% more money to men, butore on the lower end, like 8 or 7. Does sound kinda crazy, I do wonder how was this done without some sort of court action? I mean while I get the law of equal payment is new, the laws against discrimination are not, so I do wonder.

    There is also the posibilities that in some cases, given that women generaly take more on the role of caregivers when it comes to children, them being mothers aAND workers makes them effectively more tired than men when it comes to work. Of course in those scenarios ere would be an example of how a man should take aoe equal role on the parenting.
     
  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    38,456
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    At least in this country, companies are generally careful about paying employees of different gender in the same position the same wage... or at least basing any difference in wage on job performance and not gender.

    However, I think that there can still be discrepancies between similar jobs in different fields. If we look at two jobs in two industries that have different job titles but are similar in terms of things like level of responsibility, physical effort, time commitment, harshness of the working environment, required level of skill/education/etc., and size of the labour pool for each job, we can often find that traditionally female-dominated jobs pay less than equivalent male-dominated jobs.

    I think this is getting better, though - more and more, human resources staff are getting into job evaluation processes that look at these sorts of factors and try to ensure that different jobs with similar characteristics get paid the same.
     
  6. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,401
    That voice...
     
    dust1n likes this.
  7. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    56,375
    Religion:
    Erotic Dance
    It's on the internet, so it must be true.
     
  8. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Messages:
    6,895
    Religion:
    deist
    Hi!

    I notice that you are in Iowa. That State.... again! Doesn't seem to have a very good equal-rights record....?

    Am I right in saying that different States seem to have varying values, laws and rights.....and Iowa is just a bit backward about equal-rights?

    Is the shop owner breaking Iowan law, or is he allowed to pay less to women?

    Every time I hear about Iowa I am shocked silly....
     
  9. Reverend Rick

    Reverend Rick Frubal Whore Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    20,908
    Women who get paid less should take half of the responsibility for letting this happen.

    I see many women get under paid and accept a fancy title in lieu of the better pay check.

    "Director of Office Supplies" Well you get my point.

    You show me a high paid person and I will show you a person who will walk off the job in a heart beat. You have to refuse to be taken advantage of.

    You have to market yourself effectively. If you don't think you are worth a certain amount of money and refuse to work for less how on earth are you ever going to convince your employer to pay you what you need to be paid?
     
  10. Reverend Rick

    Reverend Rick Frubal Whore Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    20,908
    This is not just a women's issue. Years ago when the economy was in full swing, there was a shortage of high caliber painters. I knew a guy that was employed and a master at what he did. He was the foreman and ran the crew of painters.

    The owner hired a bunch of new painters and on Friday when the foreman was passing out paychecks one of them opened up their envelope and made a comment about the amount of their check and the foreman realised he was making less money than the new hired folks.

    He looked in the paper to find another job and saw an advertisement from his current employer offering a wage several dollars higher than he was being paid.

    He stormed into the owners office and slammed the news paper on his desk and proclaimed he wanted to apply for this job!

    Any employer will try to employ you for as little as they can and it is the employee's job to negotiate the better wage. Don't let an employer dictate what the wage is, tell them what you are willing to work for and take responsibility for your wage rate.

    You do have to agree to work for them and what you will be paid. Market yourself and keep track of what other companies are paying for the same kind of work.

    Lastly, some of the best painters I have ever seen where women.
     
  11. Draka

    Draka Cylon Skin Job

    Messages:
    16,346
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    As far as I know he's breaking the law, I just don't know how he's getting away with it and has for so long.

    I don't know what you've heard about Iowa in regards to equal rights, but as I'm living in one of the very few states in this country that affords same-sex marriage rights we must be doing at least something right.
     
  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Messages:
    6,895
    Religion:
    deist
    Hi! Sorry I took so long to reply.

    The dentist....... his assistant/technician..... and the manager wife? About two months ago. Ridiculously unfair, unlawful situation.....

    Tell you what....... I'm worried about comparing, because in the past everybody has wanted to tell me that we get more dreadful things happen in England than 'the rest of the world combined', but if this happened here, one phone to a.c.a.s. (arbitration, conciliatory, advice, service) would either end this problem immediately, and/or take the employer to a tribunal which would award substantial wages to be back payed, plus costs, plus an award, plus the option of full redundancy, and then the employer could still be fined under the sexual discrimination Act and new Equality Act. Any school-holiday-works teenager knows that. (Probably get taught all this now in social studies...?)

    And you just don't seem to have it. The Appeal (Supreme?) Court of Iowa upheld the dentist for sacking his assistant after his wife found text messages he had sent to the assistant ....... you will no doubt remember.

    Its not frustrating...... it's infuriating! The Iowans want to elect politicians for change. What do you reckon?
     
  13. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    38,456
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    Maybe because nobody's reported it?

    Iowa Civil Rights Commission
     
  14. Rakhel

    Rakhel Honey badger.

    Messages:
    7,817
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Messages:
    6,895
    Religion:
    deist
    Your smack-on correct there! Their discrimination law covers:-
    age, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, religion or disability of such applicant or employee

    They've covered the whole lot.......

    So that employer should be sorted out fairly easily. What I did not notice was the presence of any completely free service which automatically 'kicks-in' on behalf of any complainant.

    Many years ago I had to make-claim against a huge company which had bought my employer and did not need any extra trainers or managers, so just dumped us all. The lady who handled my case (ACAS) was brilliant and I was delighted with what she won for me, but she told me that I was most unusual, in that most complaining employees were never happy, no matter how much she won for them. How sad, that when given a free service most people are still not happy. She gave me loads of extras! She wacked a 14 day notice on the b-gg-rs so that they could not delay payment (which they tried.... and failed).

    Iowa probably does have such a service..... I just didn't see it.
     
  16. Draka

    Draka Cylon Skin Job

    Messages:
    16,346
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    The issue is, with that employer, how I came to find out about it was kind through underhanded means in the first place. I'm pretty sure the employees are mostly, if not entirely, unaware of what he is doing. Even if they were to hear of it, legally, it's not like they can demand to see or compare their paychecks with each other. No one has to allow someone else to see their paycheck and if the men get whiff of it they may get scared their pay may get cut and may certainly not let the women see what they make in order for the women to have proof that they are being discriminated against through their pay. Basically, the owner would have to have an accountant/bookkeeper willing to lay it all out there and expose what everyone makes regardless of how supposedly "private" those things are supposed to be and risk losing their job as well, and who knows what their financial situation is? Even if I walked into that store and went around and flat out told all the employees "Hey, Mike pays all the men more than all the women.", I don't know what could be done about it. then...there's always how I found out and how that might come back and I'd have to find out about that first.
     
  17. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

    Messages:
    18,860
    I knew it! :eek:
     
  18. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

    Messages:
    18,860
    I ve been looking up a bit more on that and I ve been hearing about a guy named Warren Farrel. H worked with the femist group NOW but later got out of the group as he investigated more on the subjects they were talking about.

    He has very interesting things to say on this matters.

    According to his studies, women gain a bit more when you consider equality in hours spent, same job AND whether you are your own boss or not. The difference is very little allegedly.

    Here is some of what he talks about


    Dr. Warren Farrell on BBC: Five Myths About Men & Male Power - YouTube
     
  19. AdityaMookerjee

    AdityaMookerjee New Member

    Messages:
    217
    If a woman CEO of say, Coca Cola didn't want to give a particular person a raise, and if men felt bad about it, personally, that lady might have issues.
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

    Messages:
    21,148
    Religion:
    Ask me when I'm dead.
    I wonder if she thinks it's ok that women are paid less because they take time off for work, because it's a personal choice and all that. And if she has considered charts that do show the wages of men and women working similar jobs?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted