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S-word

Well-Known Member
Did you Know that Dan died childless, and it was for this reason that his Father Jacob devided Joseph into two tribes and is the reason why, among the 144,000 chosen rulers who are of the first resurrection, 12,000 chosen from the tribes of 12 of the 13 descendants of Jacob, the tribe of Dan is not mentioned.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I don't see how that is possible. Samson was a descendant of Dan. Here is the verse about Samson's parents:
Jdg 13:2 Now there was a certain man of Zorah of the family of the Danites, and his name was Manoah; and his wife had never given birth to a child.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
I don't see how that is possible. Samson was a descendant of Dan. Here is the verse about Samson's parents:

Samson was a descendant of Hushim, the source of the tribe of Dan, but Husim was neither a Man nor was she the Son of Dan as has been erroneously translated in the OT.

The descendants of Hushim who are seen as the tribe of Dan, are counted among the Benjaminites, see 1 Chronicles 7: 6-12. Hushim married a Benjaminite by the name Shaharaim to who she bore two sins, Abitub and Elpaal, who are also called Shuppim and Huppim.

Shaharaim divorced Hushim when she refused to go with him to the Land of Moab, knowing that if she did so, the tribe named for her older brother Dan, which tribe is counted from her fist born,'Abitub,' would have never came into existence.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
According to the Hebrew bible Dan was the child of Bilhah and Jacob and he had one son, Hushim Gen 46:23 and is called Shuham in Num 26:42. Nothing is recorded of the life of Dan in the Hebrew bible but that does not mean he didn't have any children. In Ex 31:6 Oholiab is of the tribe of Dan along with the judge Samson Jgs 13:2, 24. These were called Danites and were listed among the 12 tribes in Eze 48:1,2. If there were Danites there had to have been children from Dan.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
According to the Hebrew bible Dan was the child of Bilhah and Jacob and he had one son, Hushim Gen 46:23 and is called Shuham in Num 26:42. Nothing is recorded of the life of Dan in the Hebrew bible but that does not mean he didn't have any children. In Ex 31:6 Oholiab is of the tribe of Dan along with the judge Samson Jgs 13:2, 24. These were called Danites and were listed among the 12 tribes in Eze 48:1,2. If there were Danites there had to have been children from Dan.


There are many instances in your Bible where daughters are written as ‘son,’ one in particular is Abihail the daughter of Eliab, see “Daughter” in Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, and although there are many others which include Shelomith the daughter Rehoboam, it would take another thread to reveal them all and Hushim is erroneously said to have been the son of the giant Dan who in fact died childless. Hushim the young sister of Dan and the daughter of Bilhah and Reuben of the blessing of first born, mothered two sons and they were ‘Abitub,’ who became the family head to the pseudo tribe of Dan and ‘Elpaal,’ from whose genetic line came Saul, who stood a head higher than any other Israelite and for this reason was chosen as King by Samuel. Abitub and Elpaal the sons of Hushim, were sired by the Benjaminite Shaharaim and were also called Shuppim and Huppim, see 1 Chronicles 8: 8-9, and 1 Chronicles 7: 6, where the tribes of Dan and Benjamin are lumped together.

Although it is said in genesis 37: 28, that Joseph, who was a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus was sent ahead into the land of first born to prepare a place for his brothers was sold for twenty prices of silver, Gad, in his last Testament to his children says that he and Simeon who had pulled Joseph out of the pit (a dry well that had been dug by Abraham) where the brothers had kept the weeping and pleading Joseph for three days and nights while deciding what to do with daddies little favourite with his grandiose dreams and who was forever reporting to their father every little indiscretion made by his brothers, and it was Gad and Simeon who made the actual sale and they received thirty pieces of silver, but hid ten for themselves and shared the remaining twenty with their brothers who all bought new sandals with their ill-gotten gain. It was from here that that the custom of the Israelites arose, where they would remove their old sandal whenever the price of a sale had been agreed upon.

Genesis 15: 18, it was after God had made his covenant with Abraham, that he, the heir apparent of ‘Terah,’ at the age of 85 sired his firstborn son Ishmael. 15 years later, Sarah the daughter of Abraham’s father ‘Terah,’ gave birth to her only recorded son, Isaac the second born and the heir apparent of Abraham, the children born by Keturah were sired by Abraham after the death of Sarah when he was well into his 100s. ---- Isaac was married when he was 40 and 15 years before the death of his father Abraham when Isaac was 60 years old, Rebecca bore his two sons Esau and Jacob. --- The second born son of Isaac, ‘Jacob,’ who was 130 when he was reunited with his 40 year old son Joseph, was 90 when Joseph was born and 102 when Rachel ‘his beloved’ died while giving birth to Benjamin. Although Esau was married at the age of 40 when his father Isaac was 100, it would be another 37 years before Jacob would, for the first time know a woman sexually.

When Isaac was 130 and all but blind, Jacob’s mother helped her favourite son who was the second born of her twins, to deceive his father and receive from him the blessing of firstborn, Jacob was then 70 years old and still a virgin. Fearing that Esau would kill Jacob because he had taken his blessing and using as her reason, the fact that the two Hittite wives of Esau had made their lives an absolute misery, Rebecca convinced Isaac to send Jacob to the town of Haran in the country which is today ‘Turkey’ and there to seek a wife from the family of Abraham’s brother. After working for Laban for 7 years, Jacob was given Leah and Rachel as wives and he consummated both unions within a week of each other. Although it would be 13 years before Rachel would be able to conceive, Leah was to give birth to Reuben at the end of the eighth year that Jacob was with Laban. Having worked for his father-in-law for 7 years before he was married, in the next 13 of the 20 years that Jacob laboured for Laban, Leah, Rachel and their two handmaids Zilpah and Bilhah, bore to Jacob, 11 sons and one daughter who was ‘Dinah the twin sister of Zebulun’ and the seventh and final child born from the womb of Leah, who was Jacobs first and only true wife.

Levi was 8 years old when Jacob with his new born son Joseph, fled from his father-in-law, (Unless of course you believe the erroneous statement in Your Bible, which would have you believe that Jacob in the last six years that he worked for Laban, with four women all vying for his favours, sired no children) and was about 18 when his sister Dinah was raped by Shechem the son of Hamor, when he, with his older brother Simeon instigated the execution of all the males in the clan of Hamor and crippled all their animals. Being terrified of the retribution that might come from the neighbouring tribes of Hamor, and being warned by his inner spirit to get out of there, Jacob moved to Bethel where he set up an alter to God before continuing on toward Ephrath (Bethlehem.) According to the Last Testament of Reuben to his children, it was at Eder near to Ephrath that he defiled his father’s bed while Jacob who was then a little over 100 years old was away visiting his sick father Isaac who would die at the age of 180 when his twin sons Esau and Jacob were 120.

Having seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, Reuben lusted after her, then one night after a festival, Bilhah who had become drunk, lay uncovered in an intoxicated sleep in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, he wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her still asleep, Reuben departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped and Reuben, riddled with guilt, did not tell anyone of his dark deed and yet Jacob found out. How? --- From his deathbed, Benjamin, who was born on the way to Ephrath, said to all of his descendants who were gathered around their dying Patriarch, “As Isaac was born to Abraham in his old age, so also was I to Jacob. And since Rachel, who had remained barren for twelve years after she had borne Joseph died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid.” Do you not find it amazing that Bilah whose last son ‘Naphtali’ was born before Gad and Asher some 14 years earlier, still had breast milk and was able to suckle the baby Benjamin?

Hushim, the first born child of Reuben, married a man from the tribe of Benjamin named Shaharaim who later divorced her after she had given birth to two sons who were named Abitub and Elpaal and were also called Shuppim and Huppim, see the descendants of Benjamin and Dan, first chronicles 7: 12. Rather than staying in the land of Egypt with the rest of his family, after he had divorced Hushim, Shaharaim the Benjaminite and biological father of Abitub, moved to the land of Moab from where would come in later years, the mother of David who had bore three children to Nahash before marrying Jesse who is recorded to have 8 sons in 1 Samuel 17: 12, but only 7 biological sons in 1 Chronicles 2: 13. And 2 Samuel 17: 25 to 27 gives the names of David’s two sisters (Who in many translations are erroneously interpreted as the daughters of Jesse) and his older brother who was not a biological son of Jesse who presented to Samuel in the order of their ages, his 8 sons, see 1 Samuel 16: 6 to 13. Dan ‘the firstborn son of Bilhah’ died childless and the Benjaminite, ‘ Abitub’ who was the son of Hushim, was the father-head of the tribe of Dan who the young sister of Dan bore for his posterity, see first Chronicles 8: 8-11. The word ‘Abi’ means ‘Father,’ and ‘Abitub’ means ‘Source of Good.’ Jacob, divided Joseph into the two tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh to make up for the tribe which was destined to be lost. See Revelation 7: 5—8, 12000 from each of the 12 tribes, but none from the tribe of Dan which tribe is to be found in the Graeco - Roman empire. But that belongs to another thread which I intend to post and God willing, I will.
 
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Arlanbb

Active Member
S-Wurd ~ you are getting HUSHIM mixed up with three DIFFERENT people.

1.There was HUSHIM son of Dan ancestral head of the tribal family of Dan Gen.46:23. The Danites were given land that comprised the cities of Zorah, Aijalon, Ekron and Eltekeh Jos. 18:40-46, 21:5, 23-24. Also Oholisb and a Samson were Danites. Ex 31:6 and Jgs 13:2,24

2.Then later on there was a HUSHIM of the tribe of Benjamite 1Cor 7:12 [not related]

3.And after that there was a HUSHIM WHICH WAS ONE OF THE THREE WIVES OF BENJAMITE SHAHARAIM. 1 Cor 8:8, 11. ABITUB is the son of this woman. You have gotten names of different people at different time all mixed up as one person at one time. The bible says there were Danites all over the place. Dan had at least one son and for all we know many more for there to be a group of Danites to inhabit many cities.

The tribes of Dan and Benjamin were not lumped together, they are talking about two different HUSHIM's in two different times. If you theory was right there would not have been any Danites in the bible, but there are.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-word ~ you are getting HUSHIM mixed up with three DIFFERENT people.


No my friend, I am talking of the one person who is Hushim whose name is changed to Shuham in numbers 26: 42, see Young’s Analytical Concordance, although most modern Bibles leave the name Shuham in numbers as Hushim, the child that was conceived in the womb of Bilhah from the rape by Reuben the first born. Bilhah, the mother of Hushim died within a year of the death of Rachel whose baby Benjamin she suckled with her own beast milk. After the death of his mother, Dan the infertile giant adopted the child as his own and she became known as the child of Dan, the same as all adopted kids are known as the children of the adopters. Rachel had been barren for 12 years when she finally birthed Benjamin, making him 5 years old when his full brother Joseph was sold into slavery at the age of 17, and at least 28 when he was reunited with his brother the effective ruler of all Egypt in the second year of the great drought around 1700 BC, 205 years after God had made his covenant with Abraham, and 225 years before God would hand down his law in 1500 BC through Moses, showing Galatians 3: 17, to be correct.

While Joseph, the first of the six Semetic Shepherd kings was ruling in Egypt, Hushim who had born two sons to Shaharaim was divorced by her husband who moved to the land of Moab from where, much later would come the mother of David who, before she married the widowed Jesse already had three children, Abigail and Zeruiah the sisters of David, and Shobi his older brother who is the eighth son of Jesse who is not recorded as his biological son, see 1 Samuel 17: 12 and 2 Samuel 17: 24-27. King Nahash who ruled both Ammon and Moab at that time, had shown loving kindness to David by giving refuge to his parents, Jesse and his former concubine who was the mother of David, while he was being pursued by the madman Saul who stood a foot taller than any other Israelite and was the descendant of Elpaal the younger of the two sons of Hushim. The descendants of Dan through his adopted daughter Hushim, which are not mentioned among the twelve groups of 12000 who are chosen from twelve of the thirteen tribes of Israel in Revelation 7: 4-8, are in fact all Benjaminites, except those who are descended from Abitub the father and source of the tribe of Dan.

Even though Dan was the fifth child sired by Jacob, because Leah, his only true wife had birthed six sons, they had to be the first in the line of blessings, therefore Dan, the first born of Jacob’s remaining six sons, received the seventh blessing from his father and the seventh allotment of land in the promised kingdom. Dinah who was raped by Shechem was in fact the seventh child born of Leah, and she was the twin sister of Napthali the land from which Jesus came in the beginning of his ministry, see Isaiah 9:1-7, and she was born, the seventh child, on the seventh day of the seventh month, and it was from her descendants that 400 of the virgins were taken and were given to the only 600 survivors of the great war in the land of Benjamin wherein all the inhabitants, men women and children in the land were slaughtered by the other 11 tribes, which included Manasseh and Ephraim, see Judges 20: 47-48, and all of chapter 21.

In the days of Samson, the Philistines still had complete control of the Land that had been allocated to Dan, which tribe were never able to drive out the original inhabitants. And Samson the infertile giant, was a descendant of Bilhah and he lived a subservant to the Philastines in the territory adjoining the land that had once belonged to Benjamin and had been divided up among the tribe of Judah and the ten northern tribes of Israel, Judah was the only tribe to remain loyal to Rehoboam see 1 Kings 12: 20, in whom a remnant of the pseudo tribe of Benjamin who Joab refused to count in the census and who were counted from the Benjaminite women who had married into the other tribes who had slaughtered every man woman and child in that land except for the six hundred fighting men who took refuge at the rock of Rimmon, and there also lived many, such as Shemei with a thousand men from the pseudo tribe of Benjamin who lived among the ten northern tribes of Israel and who came to escort David back to Jerusalem.

Although the tribe of Dan who are in reality, all descendants of Shaharaim the Benjaminite, had been allocated an allotment of land they were unable to remove the original inhabitants and had received no land in Israel and were forced to live with their brother tribe Benjamin. After the great war and they had lost the land that they lived in, the 600 survivors with their wives their children and all their belongings moved up north to Laish where they slaughtered all the peaceful inhabitants and renamed it Dan, on the way they took the silver idol of Micah who lived in the mountainous county where the eagle is given much prominence, and as their own priest they took Jonathan the grandson of Moses whose concubine was killed in the city of Gibeah, which was the cause of the great war that they had survived. They were later to move to the coast, where Dan in his ships became sea faring merchants and would be seen as the origin of the Graeco-Roman Empire from where came Jesus, the leader of the 12, which represented the thirteen children of Jacob, and Jesus was the first of many brothers who are genetic descendants of the giants whose genetic characteristics were carried in the bodies of the giant Noah and his sons, and over these who are gathered to Jesus, like Jesus, death has no power over them.

Samson the infertile giant did not belong to the 600 Danites who took their wives, their children and all their belonging and moved to Laish and never returned. For Samson was the fourth judge of Israel from Jephthah who fought the king of Ammon in order to keep control of the land that Moses and Joshua had taken over three hundred years previously and Samson judged Israel some 325 to 350 years after Phinehas the grandson of Aaron and Jonathan the grandson of Moses who were there when Israel crossed the Jordan to begin their conquest of the promised land and were the main participants in the story of the destruction of the tribe of Benjamin ‘the twelfth son of Jacob,’ whose likeness is Judas the twelfth disciple that was destined to be lost. Twice the Israelites had attacked the fortified walls of Gibeah and were repulsed, but the third time they set a trap leaving men hidings in the hills around the city, this time they retreated as before and the two brothers ‘Dan and Benjamin,’ who had been suckled by the same female, leapt the wall in pursuit of them, where one of the brothers (Benjamin) then died in insuring conflict, for the six hundred survivors from the brother tribe Dan, 600 virgins were then taken and that’s rape in any mans language, I’m sure you will see the origin of many myths in this story.

Dan, in his last Testament to the descendants of his adopted daughter Hushim, prophesied to the tribe that carried his name, saying that they would forget their God, and would be alienated from the land of their inheritance and from the race of Israel, and from the family of their seed (Benjamin.) So there you have it my dear friend, if yours is the desire to seek the truth, then this is sufficient for you to begin your search for more data to strengthen and support this little piece of history, if not, and your desire is like that of many others and that is to put forth arguments for argument s sake, then I have no desire to join you in your silly games, for to do so, would simply be casting pearls before swine.

You will undoubtedly ask the question, “Why, if the tribe of Benjamin was effectively destroyed by their brother tribes, is that tribe recorded in the book of Revelation among the 144000?” The 11 remaining disciples did not have the authority to choose a replacement for Judas, it was Saul who was chosen by the brilliant and glorious risen body of Jesus to replace the one who had been destined to be lost, to gather the required number of Gentiles into the bosom of Abraham: and the father of Saul or should I say Paul, was a Benjaminite counted from the Benjaminite women in the other tribes who had slaughtered all in the land of Benjamin, and his mother was a citizen of Rome the city in which Paul was held captive for so many years and from where, as legend would have us believe, Paul was gathered into the expanding body of Light that is the multi-celled body of the Son of Man, the new creation or the new Temple of God which is to replace his old tabernacle of Mankind. Where from within the inner most sanctuary of that new Temple of which Jesus was chosen as the cornerstone, the Lord Almighty the first born of the creation will rule the whole world with Justice, which includes even those beings who dwell in the heavens..
 
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Arlanbb

Active Member
S-Word ~ You make a lot of smoke rambeling on and on but you give no references to all your big statements. I gave references to what I said - you didn't.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-Word ~ You make a lot of smoke rambling on and on but you give no references to all your big statements. I gave references to what I said - you didn't.

You poor darling, I didn’t realise that you were blind, what a pity these computers can’t print out in braille. But let’s now blow away the smoke that has apparently blinded your eyes to the many, many references that I had made in my supposedly ramblings that are beyond your ability to understand. I’ll now write down all the references that I have given and perhaps you might be able to find someone who can read them for you. But then on second thought, why bother using up valuable time repeating that which you already have before you? If you have failed to see the many references that I have given, Biblical and others, then it is simply because you do not wish to see, and have turned a blind eye to that which everyone else who will read these comments will have seen, and it would be a waste of my time and an exercise in futility.For there are non so blind as they who refuse to see.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
You poor darling, I didn’t realise that you were blind, what a pity these computers can’t print out in braille.
..actually, there are screen-readers (for blind) and refreshable braille keyboards (for deaf-blind)... :D
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
..actually, there are screen-readers (for blind) and refreshable braille keyboards (for deaf-blind)... :D

Thank you Odion, I'm in my late sixties and live a rather reclusive life on our twenty acre block out in the scrub; aint had much schooling and am not very conversant with these computers and have neither the time nor the inclination to go to town to some school to learn about them. But I am appreciative of any information that is given to me, so I thank you once again, S-word.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Thank you Odion, I'm in my late sixties and live a rather reclusive life on our twenty acre block out in the scrub; aint had much schooling and am not very conversant with these computers and have neither the time nor the inclination to go to town to some school to learn about them. But I am appreciative of any information that is given to me, so I thank you once again, S-word.

No worries :)
I only know because I know blind and deaf-blind people. :D
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
S-word ~ Again I ask for references for your boastful statements but you can not find any I see. You make this statement "Dan in his last testament to the descendants of his adopted daughter Hushim" i'm asking for scripture proof of this statement. I don't think you have any. I could be wrong, I have been before but a lot of what you have written has no real foundation with out proper evidence which you refuse to give. All you like to do is blow a lot of smoke.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Or there is this interpretation;

In another verse, we read: "…Dan's sons: Hushim…"(Bresheit 46: 23). From the order of the verses it would seem obvious that the word Hushim is the name of Dan's son. However, the Targum Yonatan translates: "the sons of Dan were quick and sharp (in the sense that they were artisans) and they could not be counted". The Targum understands that "hushim" does not refer to a specific son of Dan, because they were too numerous to count. Instead, the reference is to the qualities of the tribe. "Quick", "sharp" "artistic" the very qualities that made Ohaliav worthy of becoming the chief assistant to Bezalel.

Yeshivat Hamivtar - Orot Lev - Parshat Hashavua
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Yes, I've met a few here myself, but let us pray that through and by the power of the Lord, we may open their eyes to the light of the Lord, and unplug the muck from their ears that has stopped them from hearing the truth.
There's deaf-blind people here??

As for the 'muck', I'm hard of hearing (deafened) and culturally Deaf and a part of Deaf culture, as well as a signer, so I can't pray for the muck from their ears. The eyes, however, I can. :D
 

S-word

Well-Known Member


S-word ~ Again I ask for references for your boastful statements but you can not find any I see. You make this statement "Dan in his last testament to the descendants of his adopted daughter Hushim" i'm asking for scripture proof of this statement. I don't think you have any. I could be wrong, I have been before but a lot of what you have written has no real foundation with out proper evidence which you refuse to give. All you like to do is blow a lot of smoke.


Revelation 7: 5-8. Twelve thousand were chosen from each tribe. Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. You will have undoubtedly observed that the tribe of Dan is not counted among the twelve tribes of Israel and would have asked the question, ‘Why?’ When you can tell me what conclusion that you arrived at, then and only then shall we continue this debate.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-word ~ Rev. 7:5-8 does NOT answer my question. It says nothing about Dan's will. Try again

We will continue this debate when you have activated the trigger to do so, and that is the revelation of your conclusions as to why the tribe of Dan is not counted among the twelve tribes of Israel in Revelation 7: 5-8.
 
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