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did we come from monkeys

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by jasonparker, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Dolphins have been shown to be of extreme intelligence as well. Just because we walk upright and have opposable thumbs does not make us any better than anything else. Just perhaps luckier. Then again, maybe not. We are the only species on earth that destroys our planet, causes mass pollution, over populates and spreads through the land depleting it of its natural resources. As is said in "The Matrix" we show more signs of being a virus to this planet...moving from place to place destroying each other and all we come in contact with.
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Eccl. 8:9: "Man has dominated man to his injury." yes you are right, thats what happens when we humans think we know better than God .still all is not lost ,because the bible tells us

    Ps. 37:29: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."​

    Rev. 11:18: "The nations became wrathful, and your own [Jehovah’s] wrath came, and the appointed time . . . to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." sorry i think that is for another thread i am getting carried away again

     
  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Is​
    it unreasonable to believe that all of us descended from the same original parents?





    "Science now corroborates what most great religions have long been preaching: Human beings of all races are . . . descended from the same first man."—Heredity in Humans (Philadelphia and New York, 1972), Amram Scheinfeld, p. 238.​

    "The Bible story of Adam and Eve, father and mother of the whole human race, told centuries ago the same truth that science has shown today: that all the peoples of the earth are a single family and have a common origin."—The Races of Mankind (New York, 1978), Ruth Benedict and Gene Weltfish, p. 3.​

    Acts 17:26: "[God] made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth.

     
  4. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Seyorni- The tools themselves are admitidly large for what we would have expected for shuch a small hominid. However thier design is far more primitive than any tools made by sapiens.
    Also the tools show evidence of use but not of discarding, and its hard to imagine (though admitidly not entirely impossible) sapiens making erectus style tools to trade with floriensis. Though why they would make erectus style tools to begin with would be an almost larger mystery than the tradeing. Sapiens have not been found with erectus style tools, that is one way we can distinguish who made them, they are culturaly unique to erectus/floriensis.

    wa:do
     
  5. meogi

    meogi Well-Known Member

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  6. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    may- so Adam and Eve looked like this?
    http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/sts5.html
    or like this?
    http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/cromagnon.html

    I'm still wondering where the line is between man and ape.
    Brain size has been brought down, (not counting floriensis) to less than 510cc (habilis) from the modern (sapiens) norm of around 1300cc.
    Perhaps eaven as low as 485cc, I havent gotten an answer about this ancestor being human or not. http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/sts5.html

    for comparison ape brains range from 390-550cc depending on species. Naturally Gorillas fall into the upper 550cc range due to thier large size.
    Granted brian to body mass is a factor but the earliest of the 'humans' would not have had brains all that much bigger than the lowly 'apes' that are decidedly not 'human'.

    so once again, where is the line in the sand drawn?

    What makes this human: http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/ER1813.html
    but this one not human: http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/sts5.html

    wa:do
     
  7. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Adam and Eve. is no mere allegory. It is historical fact. The Bible supplies a complete, documented record of genealogy reaching from the first century of the Common Era all the way back to the first humans. (Luke 3:23-38; Genesis 5:1-32; 11:10-32) As our first ancestors, Adam and Eve had a definite influence on us.

    After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living. (Genesis 3; 20)just because something sounds simple does not make it untruthful

     
  9. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    And just becuase something is written in the Bible doesn't make it factual.

    TVOR
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I read a book that said that men came from Mars and women from venus!
    (I like mars bars):jiggy:
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    II. THE ORIGIN OF MAN
    This problem may be treated from the standpoints of Holy Scripture, theology, or philosophy.

    A. The Sacred Writings are entirely concerned with the relations of man to God, and of God's dealings with man, before and after the Fall. Two accounts of his origin are given in the Old Testament. On the sixth and last day of the creation "God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him" (Gen., i, 27); and "the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul" (Gem, ii, 7; so Ecclus., xvii, 1: "God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image"). By these texts the special creation of man is established, his high dignity and his spiritual nature. As to his material part, the Scripture declares that it is formed by God from the "slime of the earth". This becomes a "living soul" and fashioned to the "image of God" by the inspiration of the "breath of life", which makes man man and differentiates him from the brute.

    B. This doctrine is obviously to be looked for in all Catholic theology. The origin of man by creation (as opposed to emanative and evolutionistic Pantheism) is asserted in the Church's dogmas and definitions. In the earliest symbols (see the Alexandrian: di ou ta panta egeneto, ta en ouranois kai epi ges, horata te kai aorata, and the Nicene), in the councils (see especially IV Lateran, 1215; "Creator of all things visible and invisible, spiritual and corporeal, who by this omnipotent power . . . brought forth out of nothing the spiritual and corporeal creation, that, is the angelic world and the universe, and afterwards man, forming as it were one composite out of spirit and body"), in the writings of the Fathers and theologians the same account is given. The early controversies and apologetics of St. Clement of Alexandria and Origen defend the theory of creation against Stoics and neo-Platonists. St. Augustine strenuously combats the pagan schools on this point as on that of the nature and immortality of man's soul. A masterly synthetic exposition of the theological and philosophical doctrine as to man is given in the "Summa Theologica" of St. Thomas Aquinas, I, QQ. lxxv-ci. So again the "Contra Gentiles", II (on creatures), especially from xlvi onwards, deals with the subject from a philosophical standpoint — the distinction between the theological and the philosophical treatment having been carefully drawn in chap. iv. Note especially chap. lxxxvii, which establishes Creationism.

    C. Scholastic philosophy reaches a conclusion as to the origin of man similar to the teaching of revelation and theology. Man is a creature of God in a created universe. All things that are, except Himself, exist in virtue of a unique creative act. As to the mode of creation, there would seem to be two possible alternatives. Either the individual composite was created ex nihilo, or a created soul became the informing principle of matter already pre-existing in another determination. Either mode would be philosophically tenable, but the Thomistic principle of the successive and graded evolution of forms in matter is in favour of the latter view. If, as is the case with the embryo (St. Thomas, I, Q. cxviii, a. 2, ad 2um), a succession of preparatory forms preceded information by the rational soul, it nevertheless follows necessarily from the established principles of Scholasticism that this, not only in the case of the first man, but of all men, must be produced in being by a special creative act. The matter that is destined to become what we call man's "body" is naturally prepared, by successive transformations, for the reception of the newly created soul as its determinant principle. The commonly held opinion is that this determination takes place when the organization of the brain of the foetus is sufficiently complete to allow of imaginative life; i.e. the possibility of the presence of phantasmata. But note also the opinion that the creation of, and information by, the soul takes place at the moment of conception.:)
     
  12. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    So were adam and eve H.sapiens in appearance, like us.
    Or if as you insist H.habilis and his species were really 'human' just like us, did Adam and Eve look like them? Smaller brain, beetle brow, sloping forhead and no chin.?

    and again, what makes H.habilis 'human' but A.aferensis 'just an ape'?

    Is it unreasonable to beleive that all of us (ape and man, bird and reptile) decended from the same original parents? ;)

    wa:do
     
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    me too:jiggy:
     
  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    I know someone with a sloping forehead and no chin i call him a funny looking human:jiggy:
     
  15. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    how big is his brain? Less than half yours or the same?
    Does he have the thick beetle brow?
    A truely sloping forehead or simply a less pronounced one?
    Small chin or receding?
    I'll avoid the differences in knees, ribs, teeth, and other things, you can't see those on the outside ;)

    anything near this? http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/WT15k.html

    again I ask what makes H. habilis human but not A.aferensis?

    wa:do
     
  16. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Okay, the bible mentions the creation of Adam and Eve and that they had sons who took wives...from where? The bible does not mention the creation of any other people except Adam and Eve. Even if others were created then it would only take so long before incest would have to happen and the weakening of the human species were to begin. Noah, his wife and his sons and their wives were supposedly the only survivors of the Great Flood and were to repopulate the Earth. There is no mention of God creating new people after the flood. If this were so than we are all inbred incestual offspring of Noah's family. This could not be because of the rampant inbreeding there would be so many genetic problems that we would not survive. Besides, this does not in anyway account for the many races we have the world over.
     
  17. J Ciresoli

    J Ciresoli Member

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    According to the Human Genome Project and its research, yes we did and there is genetic prrof for it.
     
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