Did the true church ever vanish or completely fall away?

[Hawkins]

This is a prophecy of the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The "abomination that causes desolation" in this case is a pagan idol, much like what happened during the reign of Antiochus IV, where the Temple was seized by the Seleucids and made it a temple for Zeus. The Romans eventually repeated this and after they destroyed the Temple, they built a temple to Jupiter Capitolinus on the Temple Mount itself.

No, a prophecy can have more than one realization. A prophecy is usually for a prophet to tell the near but for God to tell what could happen far away!

It's first said by Daniel, for something near Daniel but for God to foretell something far away, say, in AD 70. And yet, Jesus repeated it for the near AD 70, God can make it a prophecy farther away.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What is the abomination of Desolation Spoke of by Prophet Daniel ?

 

[Hawkins]

What is the abomination of Desolation Spoke of by Prophet Daniel ?

Whatever Daniel says originally doesn't matter, it is realized once in AD 70. What I said is, what Jesus said may realize again when the end time draws near.

 

[metis]

The reference in Daniel is believed by Jewish theologians to refer to the desecration of the Temple in 168 b.c.e., leading eventually to the Maccabean Revolt.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Whatever Daniel says originally doesn't matter, it is realized once in AD 70. What I said is, what Jesus said may realize again when the end time draws near.

So what your saying is that you don't what the abomination of Desolation is that Prophet Daniel spoke about.

 

[Muffled]

1 Corinthians 13:8 (ESV Strong's) 8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

Is knowledge a "gift" of the Spirit that has "ceased"?

I believe no gifts have ceased. They will not until this verse is fulfilled:
I Cor 13:10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

I believe he is referring to this gift:
I Cor 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:

 

[Muffled]

'The gates of hell will not prevail against it' Jesus promised
so I don't think it perished

_____________________________________________
Climbing the mountain of God with help from the short Psalms

I believe if every Christian died there still would be the church in the spiritual realm because the church is its people.

 

[Muffled]

Physical churches may get corrupted.

Matthew 24:15-16 (NIV2011)
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

When the churches become so corrupted that they receive into the churches what God considers as the deadly abomination, it means that the physical churches on earth can no longer save souls. Then it is about time that Jesus will make His return.

I believe we are the "holy place" and the church is just a building. So the only desecration that can take place would be an individual spiritual desecration.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The True Church of Christ Jesus is still coming together and will be completed after the thousand years haved expired.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I believe no gifts have ceased. They will not until this verse is fulfilled:
I Cor 13:10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

I believe he is referring to this gift:
I Cor 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:

Actually Hockeycowboy said

How do we know the writings ended? Because of what the Apostle Paul prophesied, at 1 Corinthians 13:8-10...."the gifts" of the spirit would "cease", when that which is "complete" arrives. Once the Bible was 'completed,' there was no need for the gifts to continue, directing others to God's truth, and His chosen people; the Bible would do that **see below. And those gifts and miracles stopped, when the last Apostle (John) died (c. 100 CE).

I also don't believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, not until Jesus' return.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The true church of Christ Jesus has not fallen away, It will happen when the antichrist comes and then after the thousand years have expired then the true church of Christ Jesus will be determined.

It's there in the book of Revelation.

 

[Muffled]

The true church of Christ Jesus has not fallen away, It will happen when the antichrist comes and then after the thousand years have expired then the true church of Christ Jesus will be determined.

It's there in the book of Revelation.

II Thes. 2:3 ¶ let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

I believe that is a little to general to refer to the true church. No doubt the church has nominal Christians but I don't believe they belong to the true church.

I believe I don't see it that way but only that the final judgement determines who has made it into the true church that had not made it before the thousand years.

PS: As a true believer I believe that means I am a member of the true church.

 

[Faithofchristian]

II Thes. 2:3 ¶ let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

I believe that is a little to general to refer to the true church. No doubt the church has nominal Christians but I don't believe they belong to the true church.

I believe I don't see it that way but only that the final judgement determines who has made it into the true church that had not made it before the thousand years.

PS: As a true believer I believe that means I am a member of the true church.

There will come a falling away first, when the Antichrist comes first and people believe him to be the real Christ Jesus.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison the bottomless pit, and shall go out to deceive the nations.
Those that are deceived are cast into the lake of fire and the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:1-10. Revelation 22:15.

Those that are not deceived and do not take the mark of the beast, will make up the true church of God. This being during the Tribulation and after the thousand years are expired.

 

[Muffled]

There will come a falling away first, when the Antichrist comes first and people believe him to be the real Christ Jesus.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison the bottomless pit, and shall go out to deceive the nations.
Those that are deceived are cast into the lake of fire and the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:1-10. Revelation 22:15.

Those that are not deceived and do not take the mark of the beast, will make up the true church of God. This being during the Tribulation and after the thousand years are expired.

I believe you have your time line muddled. The Antichrist precedes the loosing of Satan by at least a thousand years.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I believe you have your time line muddled. The Antichrist precedes the loosing of Satan by at least a thousand years.

Seeing who have no idea who the Antichrist is.
The Antichrist is Satan, Satan is God's number one adversary, Enemy.

Antichrist means, one who stands in the place of another.
Therefore the Antichrist comes to stand in the place of Christ.
Thereby Satan comes by masquerading by deception to deceive people into believing that he is Christ. Being the Antichrist.

 

[Spiderman]

I started a thread like this with a poll and everything. I'm inclined to believe that all Catholic and Orthodox Bishops can trace themselves back to the 12 apostles and there is an unbreakable chain of popes that dates back to St Peter (the second pope was Saint Linus in 67 AD, so my inclination is to be that the Catholic church was founded by Christ.

That doesn't change the fact that its history is very corrupt, full of abuses, and rather heartbreaking and discouraging...yet its founder is Christ none the less.

 

[metis]

That doesn't change the fact that its history is very corrupt, full of abuses, and rather heartbreaking and discouraging...yet its founder is Christ none the less.

But ya gotta be careful and not get too carried away here. Yes, there has been these problems and there's pretty much a guarantee that there will be more, but don't forget all the good that the CC and other denominations and religions have done. It's all too easy to focus on the negative and forget the positive.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The falling away does not take place, until the Antichrist comes and then the Antichrist is revealed, Then once the man of sin is revealed, The son of perdition will be taken out of the way and then Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

 

[metis]

The falling away does not take place, until the Antichrist comes and then the Antichrist is revealed, Then once the man of sin is revealed, The son of perdition will be taken out of the way and then Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

Just a heads-up in that many theologians believe that this might have been applied to Nero, and for good reason. However, it's also possible that there may be more than one "anti-Christ", so it's possible it may be used generically as well.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Just a heads-up in that many theologians believe that this might have been applied to Nero, and for good reason. However, it's also possible that there may be more than one "anti-Christ", so it's possible it may be used generically as well.

There is only one True AntiChrist, Which is Satan himself. Satan has always been the adversary against Christ Jesus.

AntiChrist means, one who stands in the place of another.
And this is exactly what the AntiChrist,Satan is trying to do.

Is to stand in the place of Christ Jesus.

The falling away that disciple Paul written about, happens only when the AntiChrist,Satan, comes by deception to deceive to stand in the place of the real Christ Jesus.
And many people will believe he is the real Christ Jesus.
All because many people to day have no clue who comes first. Or how he will come.