• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Prophets ask a wage/reward from their people?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Power > wealth.

God understands even if Prophets don't ask wealth, it looks like they are greedy for power, influence, and leadership. Not only that, with respect to after their death, it looks worse, as the successors and Messengers that follow up the founders, are from their family tree.

This is like a double greed play. Not only do they lead them, but then the leaders after are limited to people related to them.

One way to translate verses in Quran is to say God says the Prophets ask no wage at all. I was under this impression as well. Another way is for example, in the Surah were it's repeated most by past Prophets, to be "I ask you no wage/reward regarding it - that it is only regarding God."

The usual translation is that "it is only upon God (to reward me)". But it the "alal" can also mean regarding, and so it can be saying as for power and following me and authority, that I have and as well will give to my successors, and my successors being of a certain blood line and family relationship to me, this all so we follow God and it's regarding God's way and authority and this how God wishes us to submit to him. So yes, I can't deny that I get power and authority which you deem more rewardable then wealth which I do not ask, but my wage that I seek from you, that you do follow me, is in fact to obey God, and the authority I give to my successors who are of my blood line and from my family tree, is to eliminate more chances of fabricators and false authorities, and all this is regarding God, to get us to God.

What supports this, is the verse "Say: what reward/wage do I ask for it except that who wants to, to take towards their Lord a way/path" in Suratal Furqan.

Now following Mohammad and that message, makes it look greedy for power, and God understands that. But that Surah shows when they accused him of things and looked down upon him, "Look at how they attribute you the examples/parables - so they've gone astray and will not be able to find a way".

Meaning, Mohammad (pbuh&hf) if they don't recognize him cannot find another path then him. If they don't recognize him, then they will find those who like him are a straight path to God.

The final problem is that regarding their successors, it looks like God damn monarchy right? In this regard, the Quran has gone to great lengths to show the wisdom of the concept of the chosen household and why God put it succession in chosen offspring of Prophets.

Not only has it shown there is wisdom, but that this trial of chosen households like Abraham and his family, are a means to distinguish the good and evil of God's creation from Jinn and Humans.

In this regard, it emphasized the wage of Mohammad is love the kin which Mohammad is part of, but included in that is Fatima and Ali and the chosen offspring.

"That is the good news in which he gives to those who believe and do good deeds, say no wage/reward do I ask for it except the love of the kin so whoever does a goodness we will increase him therein in beauty, indeed God is Forgiving Appreciative" - 42:23.

There is one verse that however may seem to contradict this, which is in Suratal Yaseen, it says "follow those who ask you no wage and they themselves are guided", but this is God paraphrasing what the sole believer of the Three Messengers sent to that people, believed about them.

It maybe that the believer is emphasizing the wealth aspect, but forgot about the power and the legacy in succession aspect.

Now through out Quran, you will also come across other verses that are translated in a way to say no wage is asked by the Prophet.

However, we saw that he did in 42:23, and 25:57.

The verses can be translated as such:

"Whatever reward I have sought from you then it is for yourselves for reward (that I have sought from you) is regarding God...."

"Or do you ask them a reward so that they are indebted with debt?" (it's not a financial money type reward he seeks)

"Or do you ask them a reward so then the reward of your Lord is better and he is the best of those who provide sustenance. And verily you call them to a straight path."

This verse can be seen as saying, the reward he seeks is in fact, to get people to God and this is not him asking on his own, but in fact, God asking, and it looks like he benefits, but really he is just calling them to a straight path by it.

"..say: no reward do I ask for it that is but a reminder to the worlds"
"And you ask them no reward that is but a reminder to the worlds"
"What reward do I ask for it - and I am not of those who are pretentious - that is but a reminder to the worlds. And Verily you will know of it's news/tiding after a span of time"


These verses are in fact, saying, as for the reward of loving the kin, which is to take a path to God, it in fact, is a reminder to the all the worlds from God. So it may look like I am being rewarded and I ask you no wealth in return for the message, but it maybe you suspect I pretentious and am being rewarded by this by being given power and authority and giving that to relatives related to me after me, but this is in fact, the way of God guiding humans, he guides through his chosen ones, and associates them in chosen households, and yes, makes them biologically family linked to one another when they are of a group called "the Ahlulbayt".

This makes them look power hungry during their life time, and even more so, when their successors come from their relatives, but no doubt, God has shown through out Quran, why he makes it of relatives and emphasized of this message in many aspects and angles with respect to many topics of power, authority, politics, and leadership and guidance and the way God guides his creation.

I personally believe through the reward/wage verses, the position of the household of Mohammad is manifest beyond doubt.

Any excuse making is low. One more thing to mention, love has different words in Arabic. The type mentioned in 42:23 is the type that includes affection. It doesn't mean just affection, but it's part of that type of love.

For this reason it cannot be towards "Qurayshi kinship" which doesn't make sense on many levels but is the majority Sunni interpretation due to a hadith attributed to be the opinion of Ibn Abbas.

It also cannot be for similar reasons to be about "closeness", because that is abstract concept, that we can love, but can't have affection for. The word Muwada includes affection so it has to be towards living things.

That, and the way - and all the reward/wage verses - are flowing, are making the case of the perception of how it seems like Mohammad is greedy for power or Prophets seem greedy for power and legacy, but it's showing, yes they ask this, but it's not the intention they are painted with, but rather they wish to be followed so God can be followed, and because God is the Master of the authority, he gives the authority to who he pleases and negates it from who he pleases!
 
Last edited:

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Power > wealth.

God understands even if Prophets don't ask wealth, it looks like they are greedy for power, influence, and leadership. Not only that, with respect to after their death, it looks worse, as the successors and Messengers that follow up the founders, are from their family tree.
Humans have evolved as gregarious primates, and status within the tribe is important for survival and breeding. You'll be familiar with the concept of alpha males and females, for instance.

So no real surprise that certain players in the religion industry will aim for the top.

(As for breeding, in religion it's sometimes contradicted by traditions of eunuch priests and celibate priests and nuns, apparently because all of us can derive a sense of self-worth or virtue through self-denial, and seldom does self-denial get more basic than that. In the case of Paul, though, it reads more like a neurosis.)
 
Top